Quote from: jeff37923;1092882Cloning a dead singer to be a programmible RealDoll made of flesh was weird enough. Doing that with an entire boy band starts getting into Lovecraftian horror.  

I never took you for one to stop at half measures.

It would get even creepier if the failed clones were ground into Wahlburgers.

This sudden turn down a dark road pleases me. Continue.

I think part of cyber-psychosis is also other peoples' reactions to your cybered state, for example you get implanted eyeshields, mirrored - because we're talking about cyberpunk. Suddenly people can't see what your eyes are doing, don't get the full spectrum of social feedback from you and become a bit more wary around you. You notice this and become a little bit paranoid because you're still the same person you always were but people are less comfortable around you. People talking to you may be more guarded because you might be recording everything they say and do for use later on, this will also have its effect.

Makes me think the rules should scale based on how obvious the 'ware is.

Quote from: Catelf;1092864Reading all the other comments thus far makes me think of Major Motoko from Ghost in the shell.
I mean, she's fully loaded, but also don't seem to have lost THAT MUCH empathy....
On the other hand, she is also a deliberate powerhouse that really isn't fit as a regular player character.

To be fair - she's not a deliberate powerhouse, and she could be moreso if she wanted to be.

Batou hassles her occasionally about not switching to a male body for more power. To mess with him at one point in the show she says that she'll prove that she doesn't need it with a match - Batou gets excited - and then she hacks him.

In addition, in the second season of the show you find out that she was in a horrible accident as a kid and was in a coma before they transferred her mind to a full prosthetic body. An early one - which was awkward. (They have this sad backstory of how she can't make paper cranes to convince a kid from the same accident who is nearly quadriplegic [he can only move one hand well] to get a prosthetic body since he's obsessed with making paper cranes.)

As to the idea of losing less humanity for replacing what you already lost: I agree that it makes sense from a fluff perspective, but it loses much of the balancing factor. After all; what's to prevent a player from saying that they totally had an accident before the campaign began. Or even doing stupid risky things to try to get damaged.

Edit: Ninja'd way before my post. Teaches me to reply before reading the second page. >.<

Quote from: tenbones;1092868It worked great. I always found it quite believable and I enforced it ruthlessly because I'm sorry... voluntarily dismembering yourself, replacing your limbs with superhuman equivalents, having your remaining dermis toughened with bullet-proof fibers, and then having sections of your face removed and refitted for replaceable modular parts, including multiple eyes. Possibly having multiple organs replaced...

yeah that's going to cause a disconnect.

You have people *today* choosing to not socialize with others simply because of the synaptic circuits firing in different patterns in their heads. You have people choosing to cleave to their respective sub-culture based on melanin content in their skin... You have people that put body-piercings in their faces, tattoos on their heads and necks that then only associate with other like-minded people, and you think going cyber wouldn't cause an even greater disconnect??

Yeah... CP2020 was doing the whole freak-out "I hate society" massacre thing  long before it became vogue in real life. I don't think the game influences real life, mind you. I think it described something that was bound to happen because of the decay of the social fabric. Worse - it did it with pin-point accuracy to the degree that the very people that believe America is "problematic" due to their own disassociation issues with those American values (i.e. Western European values) - is one of the big causes of the calamity that befalls America and then the rest of the world.

Cyberpsychosis, when we get to that tech-level - will be a thing. Morons in real-life today can't even handle reality as it is. Imagine when they have a cyberwear to punch "Nazis".

Agreed. Body modification has a negative impact on the psyche of the modified person, before any social responses are factored in. This is one distinction between cyberpunk and transhumanism - in the latter, the baseline assumption is that "mind is self" and "body is interchangeable/irrelevant/disposable".

Quote from: RandyB;1092891Agreed. Body modification has a negative impact on the psyche of the modified person, before any social responses are factored in. This is one distinction between cyberpunk and transhumanism - in the latter, the baseline assumption is that "mind is self" and "body is interchangeable/irrelevant/disposable".

  Yes, transhumanism has long been known to be Gnosticism dressed up for the 21st century.

Quote from: jhkim;1092859I never liked cyberpsychosis. It didn't really fit with the genre to my mind - and seemed quasi-mystic. (Essence fit better with Shadowrun because of the explicit magic.)

It seemed to me that in cyberpunk, money was the real power, and that could be the main limit on cyberware. A billionaire could have all the cyberware they wanted.

Its the disconnect from sensory input that is the probable contributing factor rather than the metaphysical. The lack, or change, or even just dulling of sensory input is going to wear on some people.

Theres also a certain few with a build in fear of prosthetics and/or amputees. Apparently the amputee fear goes wayyyyyy the heck back. Usually at the sight of. But imagine someone with that sort of phobia lurking in the back of the brain when they get a cyber arm. Or like how some people freak out when having just makeup prosthetics applied.

Quote from: Catelf;1092864Reading all the other comments thus far makes me think of Major Motoko from Ghost in the shell.
I mean, she's fully loaded, but also don't seem to have lost THAT MUCH empathy....
On the other hand, she is also a deliberate powerhouse that really isn't fit as a regular player character.

Actually in the comics and the animated movie she was pretty disconnected. This is part of why the AI takes interest in her. But shes also pretty stable because she has top end gear. In the manga it is shown that lower grade cybernetics increases the chances of a disconnect. But overall the cyberware in the series is apparently more tactile than what you see in other works. One could say Ghost in the Shell is a good example of taking the punk out of cyberpunk.

On the flip side you have Appelseed and Dominion. Where theres multiple levels of cyberware and most certainly some cases of disconnects.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1092899Yes, transhumanism has long been known to be Gnosticism dressed up for the 21st century.

Exactly my take. Good to know that I'm not too far out there.

Quote from: jeff37923;1092882Cloning a dead singer to be a programmible RealDoll made of flesh was weird enough. Doing that with an entire boy band starts getting into Lovecraftian horror.  

Speaking of. In the original Ghost in the Shell manga Makoto ends up installed in a new body formerly used by a ganger after the battle with the spider tank. The body happens to be a Micheal Jackson recreation. Her friend did not know it was a guy. ahem.

Quote from: Altheus;1092887I think part of cyber-psychosis is also other peoples' reactions to your cybered state, for example you get implanted eyeshields, mirrored - because we're talking about cyberpunk. Suddenly people can't see what your eyes are doing, don't get the full spectrum of social feedback from you and become a bit more wary around you. You notice this and become a little bit paranoid because you're still the same person you always were but people are less comfortable around you. People talking to you may be more guarded because you might be recording everything they say and do for use later on, this will also have its effect.

Makes me think the rules should scale based on how obvious the 'ware is.

Yeah for sure. I think the system could use a refresh on the values. The mechanic is fine, but as you pointed out, there are some things that would have higher value than others based upon what we know about human interaction. Limbs would probably be lower in cost. Gross changes might be higher - the optical faceplate is already pretty high, but yeah, maybe it raises your Cool checks to offset the high Humanity cost.

Quote from: Omega;1092905Actually in the comics and the animated movie she was pretty disconnected. This is part of why the AI takes interest in her. But shes also pretty stable because she has top end gear. In the manga it is shown that lower grade cybernetics increases the chances of a disconnect. But overall the cyberware in the series is apparently more tactile than what you see in other works. One could say Ghost in the Shell is a good example of taking the punk out of cyberpunk.

On the flip side you have Appelseed and Dominion. Where theres multiple levels of cyberware and most certainly some cases of disconnects.

That's one of the tragic elements of Briaeros in Appleseed. He was a killing machine that couldn't be the human (well getting one's self blown to pieces and losing 75% of your body will do that).

Quote from: tenbones;1092921maybe it raises your Cool checks to offset the high Humanity cost.

I like this idea. Bonus to intimidate or charm/impress. I'd keep it as a seperate modifier so it can be tracked against how the subject feels about extensive cyberwear.

Yeah there's a lot we can do to update the system. I'm holding off until I see how CPRed drops. I have *ideas* of things I want to see. And things I'm planning on pitching. But I wanna see where they're going to baseline things.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1092926I like this idea. Bonus to intimidate or charm/impress. I'd keep it as a seperate modifier so it can be tracked against how the subject feels about extensive cyberwear.

Bonus to intimidate, impress minus to charm, convince, and you could drop cyberpsychosis.

But like someone already said, it does make sense to have some mental impact to replacing your body parts with chrome. Maybe like someone (else?) said have it tied to how good the cybernetics mimic your original parts and how much of a sensory feedback you get.

But then you have to take into account that improving your vision/hearing/olfactory might also be a feedback overload (how does Superman ever sleep if he can hear every cry for help?) Now you could be an asshole and don't care for others (99.99% of the people in a cyberpunk dystopia) but still being able to hear, smell much better should have an impact in your resting.

Or you can turn it on/off at will.