I wish I could find the link, but the person at UK Games Expo they kicked the GM out wrote a blog entry. He said he knew the GM for a decade and that the GM was so respected and senior that they were the room leader. He also said that the GM did not deny/affirmed the allegations and that is when he told the action of kicking them out. The leader said he was shocked and did not believe it when it was first told to him as he had known the GM for years and never would have expected it.

And I also came across this account: https://draconick.com/2019/06/07/the-problem-of-sexual-violence-in-ttrpgs/

I don't think that the text interview of the GM is as conclusive as others here claim it is. The supposed first person account says that the GM said the characters were raped. The GM said he has a recording, but so far his explanation looks weak.

If Rolfe truly has the recoding of the game session that he says he does he better use it to defend himself. Things sre not looking good for him imo.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1091267And I also came across this account: https://draconick.com/2019/06/07/the-problem-of-sexual-violence-in-ttrpgs/

"The Problem of Sexual Violence in TTRPGs"

Wow. So it's not this guy, it's a problem with TTRPGs in general.
No, if this person's account is true then it's a problem with this specific GM, not TTRPGs in general.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1091170The X-Card is open to abuse by a player determined to abuse it. It's just another rule for disruptive players to play lawyer with. It doesn't at all prevent anything.

All systems can be abused.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1091217I see the X-Card as giving disruptive players license to stop the game dead cold. Which is absolutely unacceptable. As they will use it to derail things for absolutely everybody else.

And I've seen players derail things because something like the #XCard wasn't present.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1091267I wish I could find the link, but the person at UK Games Expo they kicked the GM out wrote a blog entry. He said he knew the GM for a decade and that the GM was so respected and senior that they were the room leader. He also said that the GM did not deny/affirmed the allegations and that is when he told the action of kicking them out. The leader said he was shocked and did not believe it when it was first told to him as he had known the GM for years and never would have expected it.

...wow

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1091267And I also came across this account: https://draconick.com/2019/06/07/the-problem-of-sexual-violence-in-ttrpgs/

I don't think that the text interview of the GM is as conclusive as others here claim it is. The supposed first person account says that the GM said the characters were raped. The GM said he has a recording, but so far his explanation looks weak.

I'm inclined to believe these accounts, and if true would explain why we haven't heard the recording the GM claims to have. This "not going to link because they don't deserve the traffic" bullshit however needs to stop, because it makes getting the complete picture more difficult, and so far nobody has bothered to speak to both the players and GM. Not Grim, not Draconick, and especially not the #BBC.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1090172Desborough seems to gloss over what the content was. The  report on Twitter that started this is that the GM sprang a kidnapping and gang rape of their teenage PCs on the players. If you're going to spring that on an audience without warning or clearing it with the convention organizers ... I have some sympathy with UKGE here.

Yeah, IMO, that's not the sort of thing you spring on an unknowing, untested audience without some prep or warning, at least a rating and disclaimer. You don't put a graphic rape scene in a wide release moving without given it a rating, a public game should be be held to similar standard.

QuoteBut this, and the subsequent calls on TBP for universal mandatory X cards...

Implemented this though does seem like an over reach. People don't have a right to never be offended, even pissed off but they're adults and can voice their objections or vote with their feet.

Quote from: CarlD.;1091316This though, does seem like an over reach. People don't have a right to never be offended, even pissed off but they're adults and can voice their objections or vote with their feet.

   I was going more for the interpretation that "if you're going to abandon philosophical principles and social standards that certain things are inappropriate, you're not going to wind up with some libertarian paradise or dystopia, but with constant tiny regulations to determine what is and isn't 'acceptable.'"

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1091296All systems can be abused.

I'm afraid you misunderstand the criticism here: it lends itself to abuse because the person using it is above scrutiny, particular if you adopt the deluded mindset that is rampant on rpgnet.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1091296And I've seen players derail things because something like the #XCard wasn't present.

This would be literally only possible if the derailment couldn't have been prevented by anything else but an x-card. I don't think you (or anyone) can demonstrate that to be true.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1091317I was going more for the interpretation that "if you're going to abandon philosophical principles and social standards that certain things are inappropriate, you're not going to wind up with some libertarian paradise or dystopia, but with constant tiny regulations to determine what is and isn't 'acceptable.'"

If it came across like I was arguing with you, that wasn't my intent. I was talking about the suggestion of making the 'X-card' would be an over reaction, but your reply.

I was referring to the reason I don't care for the X card mechanics. I see too much potential for it to be a requirement and, to a large degree, it seems like a solution in search of a problem; the supposed problem being something reasonable adults should be to do something about both sides some respect, forethought and courtesy and standing up for yourself. It would have perfectly reasonable. "I didn't sign up for this, I'm going to bow out." No one is going to attack you or make you play and you don't need some printed piece of paper. Hell, maybe you might be able, I dunno, talk about the whatever the issue is and work out a solution.

As is so often the case, the peanut gallery on rpg.net has taken this particular ball and run out into the parking lot with it, but that's to be expected. It's the internet, overreaction is a tradition and this story pressed ALLOT of that site's hot button. Like "Sword Dream" or whatever hit allot of this one's.

Grim had a really good account of what an Xcard is like in play.

Imagine you're at a movie theater, watching some new film. A scene starts and someone doesn't like it and is 'triggered'. They hit the X-button on the armrest, and the film skips the rest of the scene. Now picture multiple people being upset about different things and how much of the film all the people who don't object are being forced to miss.

Quote from: CarlD.;1091374If it came across like I was arguing with you, that wasn't my intent. I was talking about the suggestion of making the 'X-card' would be an over reaction, but your reply.

I was referring to the reason I don't care for the X card mechanics. I see too much potential for it to be a requirement and, to a large degree, it seems like a solution in search of a problem; the supposed problem being something reasonable adults should be to do something about both sides some respect, forethought and courtesy and standing up for yourself. It would have perfectly reasonable. "I didn't sign up for this, I'm going to bow out." No one is going to attack you or make you play and you don't need some printed piece of paper. Hell, maybe you might be able, I dunno, talk about the whatever the issue is and work out a solution.

As is so often the case, the peanut gallery on rpg.net has taken this particular ball and run out into the parking lot with it, but that's to be expected. It's the internet, overreaction is a tradition and this story pressed ALLOT of that site's hot button. Like "Sword Dream" or whatever hit allot of this one's.

Have you seen anybody here demanding the sword dream morons be banned, fired, and their life ruined?

Laughing at idiots isn't even in the same planet as being a puritanical hypocrite evil moron.

And since you seem to have trouble telling when one thing isn't like another, we're laughing at the idiots. Who also happen to be the hypocritical puritanical evil morons trying to ruin everybody's fun and life.

This is actually a really simple matter. The GM launched a game that was extremely offensive for and/or to his players. The players were expected to imagine themselves as being victims of what is defined in our society as a terrible crime, and further they were not informed prior to signing up that they would be required to do this, to do this in front of a group of strangers, or in front of the general public.

James Desborough admitted as much himself, stating "If the convention organizers had known about the content of the game, they would not have allowed this on the schedule in the first place."

But then goes on to argue that the convention organizer should not have banned the GM for his violation of convention policy, where they specifically invoked the safe space clause, arguing that the GM needs a space to experiment and test the boundaries of his or her "game".

Just so everyone here understands, there is a  "safe space" clause at most conventions that prohibits anyone from running a game that may be construed as criminal. Further that sexual harassment, discrimination, or intimidation of any kind (whether from yourself, your staff, or event  participants) will not be tolerated. All gamers are welcome at a convention and deserve our respect. This is pretty much standard policy at any convention we as gamers and GMs attend. ...Also, I'm not sure why their has to be a special snowflake that is magically exempt from the rules and guidelines we all are expected to follow while we are attending such events.

Nowhere in the presentation did the GM inform the players of the experiences they were likely to have in the game. Imagine if any of the players actually had been raped as children, and then the GM sprung this little gem on them, right out of the blue at the gaming table. Yes, it would be totally appropriate for that player to step off the gaming table, but there is no reason I can think of that any gaming convention should have a game available in the first place that reintroduces a traumatic early life event for anyone. This definitely qualifies as sexual harassment as well as intimidation since the GM can't possible know beforehand which of his or her players may have actually experienced such emotionally damaging events prior to sitting in at the gaming table.

I believe a lifetime ban is totally appropriate for the idiot GM that willfully violated the UKGE safe space clause, and he/she is lucky that the ban is just for that convention.

I'm ok with any GM experimenting to test the limits on role-playing to find out just what constitutes an entertaining and fun game. In a controlled environment that minimizes the possibility of causing any permanent emotional harm for any of the players. This kind of experimentation is much more suited to a small private group that is fully aware there is going to be highly controversial subject matter as part of the game, a small group that is mentally prepared to deal with the consequences of seeing how the other players react in such a stressful situation. The key parts here being consent (of all the players), and (the GM providing information in advance about the subject matter of the game), so that the players can decide if they actually want to participate prior to actually beginning such an event.


Springing misery tourism on a group of total strangers under the guise of a "horror game", is totally lame even under the best of circumstances.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1091384Have you seen anybody here demanding the sword dream morons be banned, fired, and their life ruined?

As I'm not particularly interested in that crusade/Whingefest or whatever, I haven't been reading the latest SJW OUTRAGE!!!!! threads much But from I've read else where if it came up at all its an almost unheard of...something said some things so people didn't long Oh no.

I've seen enough of "we have to get whoever out of our game because they're doing/teaching/presenting it wrong"  type BS around here before. Give the talk about "sword dream" time when you make something like that out to be a threat or even worth starting A thread let alone two? There's been calls to cleanse the culture or what have you (never call it a community) of SJW, storygamers, leftists, die fudgers, those who like detailed descriptions, etc. So in answer to your question: give it time.

Hell, calling something kicking that dude from the con "evil" is an over reaction too. Its calls about a gaming convention some people didn't like not a new holocaust. If everyone had kept some perspective and level heads the latest tempest in a teapot would not have formed. I'm cutting rpg.net a bit of slack for the issues being something they get up in the air about such as rape not excusing anyone for blowing up over this shit. And I've seen similar snit fits on this site too over what bunches the drawers here. It's not a site of cool rationale angels.

Quote from: CarlD.;1091401As I'm not particularly interested in that crusade/Whingefest or whatever, I haven't been reading the latest SJW OUTRAGE!!!!! threads much But from I've read else where if it came up at all its an almost unheard of...something said some things so people didn't long Oh no.

I've seen enough of "we have to get whoever out of our game because they're doing/teaching/presenting it wrong"  type BS around here before. Give the talk about "sword dream" time when you make something like that out to be a threat or even worth starting A thread let alone two? There's been calls to cleanse the culture or what have you (never call it a community) of SJW, storygamers, leftists, die fudgers, those who like detailed descriptions, etc. So in answer to your question: give it time.

Hell, calling something kicking that dude from the con "evil" is an over reaction too. Its calls about a gaming convention some people didn't like not a new holocaust. If everyone had kept some perspective and level heads the latest tempest in a teapot would not have formed. I'm cutting rpg.net a bit of slack for the issues being something they get up in the air about such as rape not excusing anyone for blowing up over this shit. And I've seen similar snit fits on this site too over what bunches the drawers here. It's not a site of cool rationale angels.

Laughing at idiots isn't even in the same planet as being a puritanical hypocrite evil moron.

And since you seem to have trouble telling when one thing isn't like another, we're laughing at the idiots. Who also happen to be the hypocritical puritanical evil morons trying to ruin everybody's fun and life.

Why didn't the players walk out?

If they didn't walk out, why do they have any right to complain?

Hey, this restaurant sucks. I ate everything yesterday, but just remembered I didn't get what I ordered!!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091440Why didn't the players walk out?

If they didn't walk out, why do they have any right to complain?

Hey, this restaurant sucks. I ate everything yesterday, but just remembered I didn't get what I ordered!!

I always thought that not walking out and then complaining about it afterwards was kind of an English thing to do.