It's not so much wanting to grind on SJWs so much as it not getting better with them. Instead it seems to be getting worse with them. Nothing is ever good enough. No amount of apologizing public or privately seems to make a difference to them. Sheer basic decency and common sense take 10th place to the narrative. As a company one is expected to go bankrupt because one cannot work with an opponent of the sJW bloodthirsty mob. Company going bankrupt and it could be saved with a business deal with FGG for example. Too bad so sad ol chum you go bankrupt or they make sure to ensure that one does. Unfortunately at the moment the most extreme insane SJWs seem to be a very vocal voice in the hobby. The rest seem like sheep for fear of being ostracized by the SJWs. To be honest your not much of person if for the sake of one hobby one throws away all self respect to continue being part of it.

It's just so extreme.  These actions trivialize actual victims of sexual abuse because anyone capable of critical thought can see how hollow and selfish it is.  I also believe there's a large population of people on the site who know this is going too far but they are afraid of speaking up. The site has a very clear hierarchy of elites.

Quote from: myleftnut;1084993It's just so extreme.  These actions trivialize actual victims of sexual abuse because anyone capable of critical thought can see how hollow and selfish it is.  I also believe there's a large population of people on the site who know this is going too far but they are afraid of speaking up. The site has a very clear hierarchy of elites.

I think a major red flag for me is if you are posting about being sexually abused online.

I mean I am not saying that you are a Jussie Smollett but why are you acting like a Jussie Smollett?   o_O

Quote from: myleftnut;1084993It's just so extreme.  These actions trivialize actual victims of sexual abuse because anyone capable of critical thought can see how hollow and selfish it is.  I also believe there's a large population of people on the site who know this is going too far but they are afraid of speaking up. The site has a very clear hierarchy of elites.

Unfortunately this has been going on for far longer than the current SJW nuttery. And it undermined and trivialized actual victims long ago. This is why I say that "allways believe the victim" is absolutely wrong.

Quote from: myleftnut;1084993It's just so extreme.  These actions trivialize actual victims of sexual abuse because anyone capable of critical thought can see how hollow and selfish it is.  I also believe there's a large population of people on the site who know this is going too far but they are afraid of speaking up. The site has a very clear hierarchy of elites.

Which does not impress me and I consider them pathetic in the extreme. If it was part time or full-time paid job with benefits to go to rpg.net then I can get not saying anything. Being afraid because they might be banned from a gaming site for saying something against an increasingly repressive and regressive totalitarian site. Are they that desperate for validation or simply attention losers the bunch of them and no respect for any of them too afraid to speak up. It's not like rpg.net is the only rpg forum on the Internet.

Quote from: SHARK;1084983Greetings!

SEALIONING!!!:D Fuck, that term is so ridiculous I love it! LOL. I think Jeff or Ratman told me what it meant. I honestly didn't know what the hell it meant until a few days or whatever ago. I still love it! It's such a stupid thing. Like Surehot grinds on the SJW's all the time for making new words up. I have also mentioned it in the past--I learned years ago, now, how the Liberals get all this shit from fucking Marxism, where they twist and distort the meaning of everyday, normal words, and they freight-train in whole new definitions for expressions, then they also make up whole new words out of nothing--all designed to verbally and socially silence you, and paralyze your resistance to their argument in the public square. I've seen this done all over in college; in magazine articles; on talk shows; on interviews on news programs; as well as in political talks and debates. It's a toxic, fucked up philosophy pioneered by Marx, and Foucalt, and some other Communist troglodytes over the years, designed to make language itself a weapon to destroy Western Civilization, and crush the Communist's political and cultural opponents.

Good commentary, my friend!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Yes "sealioning" is up there together with "cultural appropriation" as far brain dead arguments go. Notice that Gamergate artists often use a sealion in their art to poke fun at it.

http://img02.deviantart.net/7d82/i/2016/068/9/9/gamergate_beach_party_by_ashion-d9ujpuh.jpg

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1084756I would be perfectly fine if you tried it at the company I work for. The procedure is pretty clear, the accusation would be treated seriously and the HR rep would do a quick assessment of the validity of the claim. If it is obviously baseless, determined by asking you a few questions, it would be done.

Glad to hear that your employer has at least some level of common sense about it.  However, I've encountered multiple "believe the accuser" advocates who maintain that performing even the most basic sniff-test of the accusation, such as "have Myrdin Potter and ndervish ever been within 1000 miles of each other?", is a failure to "believe the victim".  ("If you believe them, why are you questioning their statment?").  Not everyone has your employer's good sense.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1084756It is so unlikely that a baseless accusation would be made that the default is to assume otherwise. There is more risk to not assume otherwise than there is to do so.

I submit that "believe the accuser" policies, while they may be effective at increasing the chance of genuine incidents being reported, also greatly increase the chance of false accusations, because these policies make it easy to weaponize accusations.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1084756So your straw man argument just shows you want to protect rapists on the small chance that someone will make a false accusation and that you want to increase risk to victims and the company by imposing some legal standard that the corporation is not required to uphold.

There's a huge excluded middle between "uncritically believe all accusations" and "trying to protect rapists" which might like a word with you.

Regardless of the accusation, my position is that it should be assessed in light of available evidence and action taken based on that.  It should be neither uncritically accepted at face value, nor uncritically dismissed.

In the particular case of rape or sexual assault, it is exceptionally important not to err in either direction.  You can't err on the side of disbelief because, as you said, that increases the risk to victims (both actual and potential).  But you also can't err on the side of unquestioning belief because accusations of rape or sexual misconduct have an unusually strong ability to destroy the lives of the accused even if they are later proven to be absolutely, unquestionably innocent.  Destroying the lives of innocent people is unacceptable, and this applies equally to both the accuser and the accused.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1084756This particular straw man argument has been well considered by the general industry and rejected. It does open the door for exploitation, but so far that trade-off seems to be worth it.

The trade-off may or may not be worth it in the context of (I presume) US business operations (I left the US a decade ago and I don't go anywhere near HR or corporate policy, so I don't know either way), but "believe the accuser" seems to be exploited in the court of public opinion on a distressingly regular basis.

I think people read too extreme a view in "believe the accuser". It means treat it seriously, especially in the short term. It does not mean March the accused out in front of a firing squad and be done with them. There actually was a good post on the site we're squawking about on why innocent until proven guilty is important for the state legal system. Companies or a con are not required or expected to follow such procedures and there are ample legal procedures to handle times when it goes wrong.

For a con, all it means is delegate the accused from the accuser, make sure there is not immediate danger and the basic smell test applies (like the accused was in front of an audience on the other side of the hotel when the incident supposedly happened) and then act. Removing someone from a con is not the end of the world.

What is happening here is that people are making wild assumptions based on 1/2 truths. Like there was an initial report that Webb injured someone. So the story is he punched or assaulted someone when that never happened. People that were not there are taking it upon themselves to interfere with business. That moves them toward and maybe into an actionable area.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1084756So your straw man argument just shows you want to protect rapists

You should take a good hard look at what you wrote there.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1085037I think people read too extreme a view in "believe the accuser". It means treat it seriously, especially in the short term. It does not mean March the accused out in front of a firing squad and be done with them.

I certainly commonly see "believe the accuser" used to mean unconditional belief. The highly politicised UK police have recently got in trouble for this when rape and abuse claims collapsed because they unconditionally believed accusers and didn't do proper checks for credibility. So it goes far beyond SJWs on RPGnet. The Obama administration basically forced US colleges in receipt of public funds to take an unconditional-belief approach.

I definitely think "take accusations seriously" is good practice. Huge amounts of harm have been done by ignoring accusations, eg the Rotherham and other 'grooming' (sexual enslavement & rape) gangs here in the UK. Or frequent pre-#MeToo (and ongoing) cases in Hollywood. But one still needs to exercise basic common sense and be willing to hear both sides. Unfortunately this often does not happen.

Quote from: Trond;1085022Yes "sealioning" is up there together with "cultural appropriation" as far brain dead arguments go. Notice that Gamergate artists often use a sealion in their art to poke fun at it.

http://img02.deviantart.net/7d82/i/2016/068/9/9/gamergate_beach_party_by_ashion-d9ujpuh.jpg

But, but... I'm an Otherkin, and I identify as a non-binary sea lion, and so I'm extremely stressed that my beautiful amphibious species is used in such a non-respectful manner. Must... have... seabed safe space ! [*faints*].

Man, that was fun. Perhaps someone could market an RPG about SJWs where one plays a psychotic brat intent on infecting the Western patriarchal world with his/her/its/iz/WTF brand of insanity (but WITH SUPERPOWERS ! Because, why the Hell not :-D !)

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1085037I think people read too extreme a view in "believe the accuser". It means treat it seriously, especially in the short term. It does not mean March the accused out in front of a firing squad and be done with them. There actually was a good post on the site we're squawking about on why innocent until proven guilty is important for the state legal system. Companies or a con are not required or expected to follow such procedures and there are ample legal procedures to handle times when it goes wrong.

For a con, all it means is delegate the accused from the accuser, make sure there is not immediate danger and the basic smell test applies (like the accused was in front of an audience on the other side of the hotel when the incident supposedly happened) and then act. Removing someone from a con is not the end of the world.

What is happening here is that people are making wild assumptions based on 1/2 truths. Like there was an initial report that Webb injured someone. So the story is he punched or assaulted someone when that never happened. People that were not there are taking it upon themselves to interfere with business. That moves them toward and maybe into an actionable area.

The problem is that there simply isn't enough evidence in many cases, so even if you take the accusations seriously, but you still want to check if the claim is believable (which is reasonable) you will find that you have no idea what actually happened in many cases. So, in many cases (whether we're talking about the police or a convention) the activists will come up with "survivors" who felt that they were not being taken seriously enough. This is why there has been a push towards believing the victim, which of course will lead to mistakes the other way, accusing someone who's innocent of sexual misconduct. Another issue is that there is already a bias towards believing women, which has been shown in several studies. In fact, I think a lot of the push for "trusting women" comes from the fact that people think women are more trustworthy. But why would she lie? Turns out for a whole range of reasons (regret, personal vendetta, blackmail etc.) or she might simply have very poor judgement on what constitutes sexual misconduct (see the Ansari #metoo case) or be highly strung and on edge for psychological reasons.

Quote from: SHARK;1084983SEALIONING!!!:D Fuck, that term is so ridiculous I love it! LOL. I think Jeff or Ratman told me what it meant. I honestly didn't know what the hell it meant until a few days or whatever ago.

I only figured out what the hell it meant from the same post, ha! Reading through TBP's bans and seeing "sealioning" mentioned multiple times was getting eerie and confusing. Now it's just eerie and idiotic.

That that the act of posting a dissenting opinion or even just asking for (or presenting) real, actual evidence on an "apolitical" "gaming" forum is being equivocated to breaking into someone's private home and shouting them down is fucking ridiculous. I mean, what a set of fucking mental gymnastics. It would almost be impressive if it weren't being used as such a pitiful tool for propaganda and silencing others.

Quote from: SHARK;1084983I have also mentioned it in the past--I learned years ago, now, how the Liberals get all this shit from fucking Marxism, where they twist and distort the meaning of everyday, normal words, and they freight-train in whole new definitions for expressions, then they also make up whole new words out of nothing--all designed to verbally and socially silence you, and paralyze your resistance to their argument in the public square.

Yes. This sort of thing pisses me off. Particularly the fact that, as you say, this is occurring so commonly on college campuses which is the exact place developing minds SHOULD be hearing dramatically conflicting/dissenting opinions, philosophies, perspectives, etc. and formulating their own. Campuses and classrooms are being used as soapboxes and mouthpieces for overwhelmingly liberal college professors.

As far as gaming, I deeply hope that this drivel TBP is shoveling drives more people away to places with more a more balanced array of opinions (and less batshit fucking insane moderation). Would be nice to have even more new members!:p

Quote from: SHARK;1084983Greetings!

SEALIONING!!!:D Fuck, that term is so ridiculous I love it! LOL. .........

Found this on RPG.net

QuoteModerator Text:
Anyone who sealions for known harassers or concern-trolls about "but what about the effect this will have on those poor companies who hire harassers!" in this thread is going to eat a lengthy ban.

At what point do we start wondering if the whole thing is actually parody?

Quote from: Trond;1085225Found this on RPG.net



At what point do we start wondering if the whole thing is actually parody?

Greetings!

LOL!:D Definitely, my friend! You know, sometimes I try and imagine myself being on the inside of their mind, you know? I think, man, some person can't actually say that or write that--precisely your example quote there, Trond!--and keep a straight face, right? You know what I'm trying to say? Doesn't the Stupid Train of what they're saying ever catch up to them, you know, like a backed up toilet, where they look at it, and think, "Goddamn. What the fuck am I thinking?" You know? The nonsense of their entire thinking is just so absurd, it's like the incoherent, emotional babbling of a 12 year old with snot bubbling down their face from their nose. Like many such dim kids, they seem blissfully unaware of the fact that they merely keep licking their tongue up and slurping their snot into their mouth. Only later do they suddenly sniff, and wipe their nose with newfound awareness instead of mindlessly slurping it back down. I guess they never reach that moment of self-awareness.

The really disturbing part, though, my friend, is I remember having colleagues in my classes--"Women's Studies" and such BS--where they were fully aware of their ideology, and were entirely committed to it, like they sold their soul to it in exchange for some future spiritual redemption. They smugly reassured themselves that THEY were the "plugged in" righteous elite, while YOU were the primitive, evil, misogynist, homophobic, imperialist, warmonger.

I got told that by more than a few preening little 18 year old strumpets in class because I merely said that I was Christian, Traditional, women shouldn't be serving in combat arms, and America needed to always be strong, and needed to stand against Muslim fanatics around the world. I had to tell them that their smug "opinions" on foreign affairs, and how a successful military operates didn't impress me in the slightest. When they were still in diapers, and sucking on their mother's tit, I was carrying an M-16 and jumping out of helicopters, serving our nation, and ready to fight against the Soviets, or any other of our enemies around the globe. I told them, think about your scope of learning, you have just recently graduated from high school; for the vast majority of your short, smug life, your biggest concern has been what Barbie dolls to play with, or what stuffed animal you were going to talk to. Meanwhile, I have placed my life on the line for my country; I've been shot at; I've seen blood spilled out right in front of me; I've been on my own; paying bills; and I've been married, paying taxes, and voted in elections almost as long as you've been alive.

And yet, you actually have the smug arrogance to presume YOU can sit here, all self-righteous, and pretend to tell ME how geo-politics actually works, and what should be important for our society, our military, and our government? LOL. I have been alive long enough to learn and know many things that you are simply incapable of even comprehending, because you haven't been alive long enough; you haven't read enough; you haven't worked and struggled enough; you haven't experienced enough.

I hate to break it to you cupcake, but you and your little friends here had best get up early in the morning, and spend another ten years of working, studying, and learning, before you can even begin to have a serious and worthwhile discussion with me, or someone like me. That's just the truth.

They were brainwashed though, and entirely committed to the socialist/globalist/feminist agenda and ideology. It's like a wierd disease of the mind, Liberalism. The SJW strain of the disease has matastasized, and transformed them now into pod-people, like Donald Sutherland!:D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK