Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1084761If that's it, it probably wouldn't be found to be sexual harassment at all (in law). Sexual harassment has to be both offensive to the plaintiff (which takes into account all their past actions) and would be offensive to a reasonable person. It's a tougher standard than most people think.

That is much tougher than the standard for an internet conviction, followed by boycott and defamation of everyone you've ever met.

Which is where things like Defamation and Tortious Interference come into play: because your interests can be harmed so easily in the court of public opinion, you have a duty not to harm someone else's interests improperly or without privilege to do so (which is basically the same thing) and if you commit that tort against someone else, they're supposed to be able to get damages out of you for it.

Quote from: Lychee of the Exchequer;1084768Is there some written evidence (in the internet) of this, from Paizo or some witnesses ?

I too had the impression that miss Price was shown the door from Paizo, but in a hush-hush way. But I could be totally mistaken about that. Hence my inquiry.

Someone mentioned it on the farms, I do not know of any confirmation other than that.

Price brings up two stories about Paizo when she bitches about them.  One is that the SJWs at the company had repurposed some Conference rooms as a place to take naps -- because SJWs are functional toddlers, incapable of living in reality -- and her boss stopped it by making a policy that the blinds were to remain open unless the rooms were actively being used for business purposes that needed privacy.  She countered by accusing him (her?) of victim shaming because people were using said rooms to cry in due to all the stress.

The other story is her alluding to being told to knock it off when she was going after Frank Mentzer and was told under no uncertain circumstances that there are some things even a SJW infested company like Paizo can't allow.

Since she complains about both thinking both are evidence that she was a poor oppressed victim, it's likely one or the other led to her termination.

Quote from: S'mon;1084769Account from Price quoted here https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/a8i2yy/drama_jessica_price_reveals_why_paizo_fired_her/

We now know that a female Paizo staffer grabbed Webb and injured herself trying to haul him around. She then demanded medical bill money from Paizo. It sounds as if this woman may have criminally assaulted Webb. Paizo were understandably a bit annoyed which then escalated.

I feel sorry for Lisa Stevens. She just wanted to sell tabletop games.

No, we don't know that.  Jessica Price is an utter sociopath, and sociopaths are known to lie whenever it serves them.  She claims that this happened, but remember right after PaizoCon Frog God Game's lawyer -- who is bound by the bar association rules to not lie or he literally risks ruining his life -- stated he couldn't verify this story with Paizo.  

https://archive.fo/8lRbY

Specifically:

QuoteA series of tweets brought to our attention have mentioned that an altercation occurred at the time of the incident, and that a Paizo employee was injured. From talking to the individual who made the complaint we have not been made aware of any altercation beyond the behavior of Mr. Webb addressed in the complaint. To date, we have not received any information from Paizo or any other party regarding an employee being injured or how such an injury occurred. I can be contacted at [EMAIL REDACTED] if anyone has further first-person accounts. I will be out of country for the next two weeks, but when I return I will review any such information.

The individual who made the complaint is BJ Hensley, who initially was telling people she was only upset that Bill Webb made a fool of himself in front of Paizo and that some crazy women -- Jessica Price and the anonymous woman who supposedly hurt herself "pulling Webb off BJ Hensley" et all (Stacy Dellorfano?) -- were twisting things and using her to get at him.  She only recanted this stance later and changed her statement to be more in line with Price et all.

Bill Webb also specifically denied it in the recent posting.  A workplace incident report would have been made available to Frog God Games' lawyer upon request, or at the very least they would have confirmed they had one and an incident occured, they didn't.

In other words, it did not happen.  Read through the lines:  She went to her boss with a woman who (IF you believe Price and this woman, which you shouldn't) assaulted Bill Webb after Webb handed a pack of cigarettes to a coworker.  In public.  At a work function.  And then demanded not only that they pay her medical bills -- an HR issue that Price had no business being involved with -- but that they also blacklist a CEO and a Company they had business contracts with.

No wonder she got fired.  If it wasn't sleeping on the job or going after Mentzer, it would definitely had been this.

Price is lying in order to defame Webb.  If not, well, she's going to have to prove that in court, because apparently she's being sued, likely for Defamation, Criminal Conspiracy, and Tort Interference with a Contract / Tort Interference with Potential Business.  It'll be Webb's word vs her's, and the burden of proof will be on her to prove it happened.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1084545Proud to say I've never sullied myself by having a Twitter account in the first place. But now I see why this Helton character is a target. Never heard of him before - where do all these shitbags even come from???

Out of nowhere?

Seriously, he sounds like he never read anything by the Pundit.

You don't need to guess who the person that supposedly was hurt is, you just need to look at Bill Webb's statement as there is a copy of a tweet there where the person identifies themselves and says it was their fault.

Quote from: KiTA;1084782No, we don't know that.  Jessica Price is an utter sociopath, and sociopaths are known to lie whenever it serves them.  She claims that this happened, but remember right after PaizoCon Frog God Game's lawyer -- who is bound by the bar association rules to not lie or he literally risks ruining his life -- stated he couldn't verify this story with Paizo.  

Yes, but I was going by the Crystal Frazier (who AFAIK is a trans & SJW inclined) statement - https://froggodgames.com/frogs/statement-by-bill-webb/?fbclid=IwAR2SnzK2mmpX5HgZnm8r3vVik-Azjh47kw6NBE3BLOGTgrK9pk-3TO393X4 - that the injury was self inflicted by whoever grabbed Webb.

AFAIK Stacey D was not even at the Con and certainly was not a Paizo staffer. Nothing to do with her.

Crystal is the one that grabbed him, according to her tweet.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1084794Crystal is the one that grabbed him, according to her tweet.

OK, that clarifies things slightly. I see from my Paizo APs that Frazier was a Paizo staffer.

I am not a lawyer, but I have an extensive background in legal consulting. The law is not like most TV shows or movies. In my experience, legal thrillers are as fantastical as LotR. Might as well have orcs and elves as clients and lawyers casting spells.  

Most civil cases settle before trial. It is relatively easy and relatively cheap to launch a civil lawsuit. Then defendants either lawyer up (which can get expensive) or they represent themselves (called "in pro per" or "pro se"). That's almost always a mistake because the bias against self-representation is extreme even if you know what you're doing. Thus, most people lawyer up which begins the money suck. The vampire, I mean lawyer, then demands a retainer (usually $3k or $5k) to start reading and responding to your case, and usually they want an "evergreen" retainer which means as the lawyer uses up your retainer, you gotta refill their beer mug every month.

Very tasty for your lawyer, not so tasty for you!

Getting a free lawyer for a civil suit isn't easy. Law firms use their "pro bono" hours for lawsuits to garner positive press or push their own political activism. A good pro bono suit is helping a homeless family who got evicted get justice so they can move into a house. Defending internet randos who tried to interfere with inter-state commerce? Not sexy.  

However, the problem with civil lawsuits is getting paid after you win. There are entire firms who only do enforcement of judgments. I know cases where the "winner" cut a deal for just attorney fees or less, just to incentivize an enforcement firm to hunt without mercy. But I also know cases where a decade passed and the "winner" still never saw a dime.

Here's some basic info:
http://www.fullertonlaw.com/enforcement-of-judgment

Let's not forget the OJ civil case. He's living swanky because certain laws protect him from collection on the massive civil judgment from two entire decades ago. The Juice is Loose, and his NFL cashola is rolling hard in his bloody hands.

Quote from: Brad;1084635Against my better judgement, I read the rpg.net thread RE: this lawsuit.

There is occasionally value in reading the thoughts of those who disagree with you.

Even if just for the LOLZ.

Quote from: Brad;1084635I've never seen such blatant ignorance in my life.

I used to think there was a bottom to human stupidity. I was wrong.

Apparently asshattery goes to infinity and beyond!

Quote from: KiTA;1084745This is a really weird adventure book for Dungeons and Dangerhairs,

Awesome!! That's gonna be my new name for 5e.

These threads just reinforce why I don't hire people I suspect of being SJWs. No women studies minors allowed in my division

Quote from: Lurtch;1084805These threads just reinforce why I don't hire people I suspect of being SJWs. No women studies minors allowed in my division

Don't use the term Women Studies majors.  They'll claim gender discrimination and sue you.

Use the term "grievance Studies" -- it's actually a form of Post-Modernist Identity (Cultural) Marxism, but "Grievance Studies" is dismissive and insulting in a way that drives those types, who consider themselves serious scholars despite literally not believing in logic or reasoning, utterly mad.

Quote from: KiTA;1084809Don't use the term Women Studies majors.  They'll claim gender discrimination and sue you.

Use the term "grievance Studies" -- it's actually a form of Post-Modernist Identity (Cultural) Marxism, but "Grievance Studies" is dismissive and insulting in a way that drives those types, who consider themselves serious scholars despite literally not believing in logic or reasoning, utterly mad.

Whatever it's called I won't hire white women so I don't have to hear about it. Luckily, I work in IT and white women are too stupid to do the work and my department is 30% women. There is nothing worded than a younger white chick.

Steve Jackson Games sued the Secret Service ..... and won. They WILL NOT be bullied online by these people based on an event from years ago that had zero legal implications.

It's about making money. The SJWs harass people online and think it's their right. It isn't. You have a right to voice your opinion, yes, but if what you are saying is disingenuous AND interferes with a company's
ability to make money, you will be in an actionable position.

These defendants are bullies, plain and simple. No different than someone who tries to take your lunch money. What they have posted for YEARS has impacted FGG's ability to make money. SJG, obviously, wont
be as submissive as FGG. You have to stand up to bullies or they will tear you down.

What if you made a mistake and a group of people NEVER LET YOU LIVE IT DOWN. Anytime you posted online, they were there talking about what you did years ago. Anytime you launched a product or service, they
were there talking about what you did years ago. Anytime you showed up at a Con, they were there talking about what you did years ago. Anytime you posted on a forum, they were there talking about what you did
YEARS AGO.

That's harassment. Easily Tortious Interference. If I were the lawyer, I'd capture all the internet comments from the bullies and read them in court. Easy win. They CANNOT defend themselves.

This is the stupidity of SJWs: they do not understand that, while their cause may be worthwhile, their tactics are fucked-up. They are, essentially, suicide-bombers, and this lawsuit, if carried out, will prove that.

My concern is that the action is followed through. A threat is not enough. Make them defend their stupid position in a way that informs other SJWs that bullying people online is dangerous.

We'll see.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1084803In my experience, legal thrillers are as fantastical as LotR. Might as well have orcs and elves as clients and lawyers casting spells.  

Now I kind of want that as a show.

Quote from: Lurtch;1084813Whatever it's called I won't hire white women so I don't have to hear about it. Luckily, I work in IT and white women are too stupid to do the work and my department is 30% women. There is nothing worded than a younger white chick.

There are plenty of reasonable people who come here to talk about games, but the fact that this sort of thing gets posted pretty often - and this community as a whole puts up with it - is why folks are right when they bitch about the misogynistic shit bags who lurk here.