Quote from: jhkim;1084423In practice, though, race is not taken as value neutral by either conservatives or liberals. Conservatives tend to claim that there is bias against white people now, and they will often have complaints of media with less white characters - saying that it is a result of this bias. Conversely, liberals tend to claim that bias against racial minorities exists, and they will often have complaints about media that features with less minority characters, saying it is a result of this bias.

And the great majority of people in the middle call bullshit on both those stances. We have to stop letting our culture be dictated by two small warring tribes who account for maybe 10-15 per cent of the population each.

Quote from: Haffrung;1084416Yep. But so what? It was a great show because of the writing, characterization, and artwork. Not because it checked off a bunch of diversity boxes.

I actually do think that the various nations being racially consistent did add to the setting. Not that it mattered what the features of the four nations were - but it was a nice touch that the look of the people along with their clothing/architecture were distinct enough to be able to tell them apart - but not totally homogeneous either. (Plus - if they were homogeneous it wouldn't have been possible for the MCs to go undercover in The Fire Nation, or Zuko to go undercover in The Earth Nation.)

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1084475I actually do think that the various nations being racially consistent did add to the setting. Not that it mattered what the features of the four nations were - but it was a nice touch that the look of the people along with their clothing/architecture were distinct enough to be able to tell them apart - but not totally homogeneous either. (Plus - if they were homogeneous it wouldn't have been possible for the MCs to go undercover in The Fire Nation, or Zuko to go undercover in The Earth Nation.)

Actually, I think you're right. The Last Airbender was a show where diverse and distinct cultures played an essential role in the worldbuilding. I just don't think it follows that any creator with imagination must present diverse fantasy worlds. Or at least not racially diverse (there are of course all sorts of other kinds of diversity - diversity of values, customs, dress, tactics, etc.).

Ah but here is the kicker. You will have some SJWs claiming that this is not diverse at all as all these cultures are just one race each. And that is being racist dont you know?

Quote from: Omega;1084744Ah but here is the kicker. You will have some SJWs claiming that this is not diverse at all as all these cultures are just one race each. And that is being racist dont you know?

Yeah, the rule with SJWs is you just can't win.

Quote from: Lychee of the Exchequer;1084406Then do it yourself.

I said that I do?

Mostly by simply not describing characters as a particular phenotype so that readers may project themselves. If the story involves traveling or cosmopolitan locations then I would describe phenotypes and cultural differences and so forth.

One dark fairy tale story I'm working on involves a repudiation of the whitey mighty exiled prince narrative in which the non-white characters the mighty whitey forms friendships with are generally using him to advance their own political power and have their own plots and so forth. And the mighty whitey is deeply unhinged because of his obsession with revenge, making him willing to do all sorts of morally questionable things to get vengeance including making pacts with the Devil.

Quote from: Lychee of the Exchequer;1084406Seriously, I write stories for a living. The characters in a story always depend on the peculiarities of this story. One of the stories I collaborated on (a movie) was featuring an all-arabian cast. Guess what: there were no Whites in that story... probably because it all happened in an african desert. Do you think I have been non diverse enough in my rewriting of that story (it was a script doctor gig) ? Do you have any idea how much that line of thought is non-sensical to me ?

And the most revealing part of this litte anecdote: before reading your post, and thinking about an answer, I swear it had never occured to me to think of that story in the way your post frame it ; I had not even realized there were no white men nor any other particular ethnicity "missing" in that piece.

I've got nothing against you, BoxCrayonTales, and I even enjoy some of your posts for their head-scratching value: it's just that you're obsessed with diversity, sexism, and various unhealthy aspects of society, and that I'm not. It does not make me a lesser or better person than you are, but it just makes my life easier.

Peace.

I don't disagree.

Writing white people out of their own history is problem in some liberal media. Which is itself a form of racism because it implicitly assumes that minorities are parasites with no culture of their own (an insult that is often levied at white people because imperialist culture has destroyed white people's connection to their own roots). Rather than introduce black Greek heroes like King Memnon to show audiences that African kingdoms existed and had heroes and what not (a la Wakanda), BBC's Troy decided to make Achilles black.

Remember Princess Andromeda, wife of Perseus? She was an Ethiopian princess. You wouldn't know that from movies where she is played by a white actress. The Greeks had diverse characters before it was fashionable.

My concerns regard fantasy fiction, not historical or pseudo-historical fiction. Real history requires you to jump through hoops to get diverse casts. Fantasy history lets you build a history where you can get diverse casts in circumstances that have no comparisons in reality.

I personally want to write for a diverse audience, but neither do I want to exclude white people. That's why I'm going to write fairy tales about lumberjacks, coal miners, cowboys, farm boys with southern drawls, and vampire castles in Appalachia.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1085063I personally want to write for a diverse audience, but neither do I want to exclude white people. That's why I'm going to write fairy tales about lumberjacks, coal miners, cowboys, farm boys with southern drawls, and vampire castles in Appalachia.

Hmmm? Then you'll be writing about the Algonquin Widjigo, ...yes?

Most of you may already be familiar with this evil native American spirit by its' Ojibwa name, Wendigo.

Your story has already been done, and there is also a movie out about the story, where white people are included, both the French and the English, it's called Ginger Snaps Back.


Native American Legends about Vampires and Werewolves
http://www.native-languages.org/algonquin-legends.htm

Ginger Snaps back, The movie.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365265/

Ginger Snaps Back (YouTube Trailer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqrYpeBBYFU

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1085063One dark fairy tale story I'm working on involves a repudiation of the whitey mighty exiled prince narrative in which the non-white characters the mighty whitey forms friendships with are generally using him to advance their own political power and have their own plots and so forth.

Kipling got there first with subverting the Mighty Whitey trope like that:

Quote from: S'mon;1085099Kipling got there first with subverting the Mighty Whitey trope like that:

Greetings!

DAYUM!:D "The Man Who Would Be King" is one of my favourite movies. Fucking awesome!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

What culture is Sean Connery appropriating here?

Quote from: tenbones;1085131What culture is Sean Connery appropriating here?

Angry Drunk Scots Diaper Wearers in Stripper Boots.  It's not a sizeable people.

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;1085143Angry Drunk Scots Diaper Wearers in Stripper Boots.  It's not a sizeable people.

Isn't that his native folk?

Quote from: ThatChrisGuy;1085143Angry Drunk Scots Diaper Wearers in Stripper Boots.  It's not a sizeable people.

You know Friday night in Edinburgh that population is higher then you may have thought.  :eek:

Quote from: GameDaddy;1085066Hmmm? Then you'll be writing about the Algonquin Widjigo, ...yes?

Most of you may already be familiar with this evil native American spirit by its' Ojibwa name, Wendigo.

Your story has already been done, and there is also a movie out about the story, where white people are included, both the French and the English, it's called Ginger Snaps Back.


Native American Legends about Vampires and Werewolves
http://www.native-languages.org/algonquin-legends.htm

Ginger Snaps back, The movie.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365265/

Ginger Snaps Back (YouTube Trailer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqrYpeBBYFU

You completely missed my point.

I'm plotting fairy tales based on USA rural culture history, with some motifs burrowed from elsewhere.

Let me give examples:

• a stereotypical Slavic Vampire Count lives in a haunted Gothic castle in Appalachia and Pennsylvania (a word play on Wallachia and Transylvania), employing hoodoo-practicing hillfolk and traveling folk as servants and lording over rural American peasants with a bored, unassuming fist.
• A bunch of rural coal miners encounter Germanic-style dwarves, knockers, kobolds, etc in an American coal mine.
• A bunch of lumberjacks in the Pacific Northwest deal with fearsome critters like the hoopsnake, wampus cat, axhandle hound, and imported drop bear and imported wild haggis.
• Cowboys deal with werewolves in the wild west.

Since this is fantasy I can inflate the number of African-Americans, Native Americans, Mexicans and Chinese immigrants compared to reality. That's more of an afterthought though, since I don't consider a character's ethnic background unless it would be relevant to the plot.

Quote from: S'mon;1085099Kipling got there first with subverting the Mighty Whitey trope like that:

I'm under no allusions I'm the first to mock the white savior trope. Dune did it pretty well back in the 60s.

I just wanted to write a dark cold-served revenge story and the white savior part just happened to come up while I was hashing out ideas for plots. I'm taking mainly inspiration from The Count of Monte Cristo and The Odyssey.

Well, something GOOD but also ENGAGING.

I've read many games that were GOOD. But, to create a game ENGAGING enough to be bought and run --- different.

I think CoC is good. But, I find Delta Green far more engaging as an RPG. Largely because every offline or online run of this game ignores the very real racism & sexism in the U.S.

I'm no SJW. I kind of despise them. But, you need a degree of realism in a game based on 1920's America that reflect the racism & sexism. Otherwise, how is that CoC?

But most CoC games run online have no hint of Racism/Sexism. Again, I'm no SJW, but the U.S. was wildly racist/sexist then --- how do you ignore it?

What if, you ran a game with racist/sexist PCs who were investigating the supernatural? I think THAT is the true representation of CoC. I should not be able to run an African-American or
female PC for C0C and not have them feel out-or-place. I would think my group mature enough to handle that based on an earlier discussion.

Fun? Having a player with no racist inclinations, playing a racist PC. That's REAL roleplaying, despite what anyone told U.