Paizo will eventually be remembered as basically an opportunistic parasite on a weakened hobby.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1080373Paizo will eventually be remembered as basically an opportunistic parasite on a weakened hobby.

That's a funny way of saying "the only reason D&D 4e wasn't the dominant game".

A lot had to go wrong for 4e to fail, Paizo making Pathfinder was an essential element.

Some argument could be made that OSR would have been bigger if 4e was the only other option for 3e players who like new books, but it can also be said that OSR really benefited from Paizo's dominance as "real D&D" so that OSR could fill the niche of "playable real D&D".

Because 4e wasn't actually bad and it's pretty easy to learn and play. I suspect most of the 3e diehards would have converted over eventually without something like Pathfinder. And then you do not get a 5e D&D that looks like this.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1080373Paizo will eventually be remembered as basically an opportunistic parasite on a weakened hobby.

So you hope.  But evidence suggests otherwise.  But I don't disagree with your premise that PFRPG2 will not be as 'good' or as popular as the first edition.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1080425So you hope.  But evidence suggests otherwise.  But I don't disagree with your premise that PFRPG2 will not be as 'good' or as popular as the first edition.

What evidence?

Quote from: S'mon;1080433What evidence?

The fact that their storefront is still going strong?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1080449The fact that their storefront is still going strong?

So their retail business is not an 'opportunistic parasite on a weakened hobby'?  I agree, but I'm sure Pundit was referring specifically to their Pathfinder RPG.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1080375That's a funny way of saying "the only reason D&D 4e wasn't the dominant game".

A lot had to go wrong for 4e to fail, Paizo making Pathfinder was an essential element.

Some argument could be made that OSR would have been bigger if 4e was the only other option for 3e players who like new books, but it can also be said that OSR really benefited from Paizo's dominance as "real D&D" so that OSR could fill the niche of "playable real D&D".

Because 4e wasn't actually bad and it's pretty easy to learn and play. I suspect most of the 3e diehards would have converted over eventually without something like Pathfinder. And then you do not get a 5e D&D that looks like this.

Well there would've been something like Pathfinder. There was a pretty obvious market for 3.75ed that wasn't beeing filled so SOMEONE would've filled PF's shoes. Maybe the PF substitute wouldn't have been as popular or the market would be fragmented into a bunch of 3ed clones kind of like the OSR but 3ed clones were inevitable.

Quote from: S'mon;1080454So their retail business is not an 'opportunistic parasite on a weakened hobby'?  I agree, but I'm sure Pundit was referring specifically to their Pathfinder RPG.

He said Paizo, I assumed he believes that the company would burn if PFRPG fails.

He is incorrect.  Paizo have good business sense.  After all, while PFRPG was their baby, they STILL sold 4e stuff JUST IN CASE the bottom dropped out of their RPG business.  Personally, 2e is not gonna fly, it's clear that Paizo has no idea how to make RPGs, but them even taking a financial hit on this?  No.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1080478He said Paizo, I assumed he believes that the company would burn if PFRPG fails.

He is incorrect.  Paizo have good business sense.  After all, while PFRPG was their baby, they STILL sold 4e stuff JUST IN CASE the bottom dropped out of their RPG business.  Personally, 2e is not gonna fly, it's clear that Paizo has no idea how to make RPGs, but them even taking a financial hit on this?  No.

You're kidding, right?

Paizo's marketplace of 3rd-party products isn't anywhere near the income that their sales of their Pathfinder products are.

Unlikely PF2 will be as popular as PF1. But I'm pretty confident it will still be the second most popular fantasy RPG in the hobby. There's space in the market for a more crunchy D&D variant, and PF2 will certainly be more accessible for new players than the frankenstein system of PF1. The pissing and moaning about it on forums is the usual grognard response to any new edition.

Quote from: kythri;1080480You're kidding, right?

Paizo's marketplace of 3rd-party products isn't anywhere near the income that their sales of their Pathfinder products are.

Citation needed.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1080546Citation needed.

Nah, not this time.  Anyone who has paid attention to anything Paizo has said since the Dragon/Dungeon transition is aware of this.

The Adventure Path was, and now the RPG is, their bread and butter.

I'm not saying they make an inconsequential amount of money from the webstore, but the majority of that is from subscribers to their various PF products who use it for convenience.

The only reason Paizo's PDF marketplace is a viable market for 3rd-parties is because it's the only place to legally acquire Paizo's PF content.  That's specifically what it was created for, and they opened it up later to 3rd-party products.  If it had to compete with DTRPG on it's own merits, and not be the exclusive source for the Paizo content, it wouldn't survive.

If Paizo stops publishing, their webstore really won't be something that keeps them afloat.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1080373Paizo will eventually be remembered as basically an opportunistic parasite on a weakened hobby.

Gawd they saved us from Cthulhu, what do you want a gold plated PHB?

If they'd made this a bit more like Starfinder (with the fixed hit points and building-block steps of character generation) combined with some of the 4E/5E concepts (like proficiency bonus independent of class and bounded accuracy) they could have gotten somewhere.  As it is you have all the crunch of PF/3.5 (that turns some people off) without the straightforward system that makes the crunch work.

JG

Quote from: RPGPundit;1080373Paizo will eventually be remembered as basically an opportunistic parasite on a weakened hobby.

The whole of the OSR may end up remembered as that too. Parasites.