Quote from: jhkim;1061828When you say "imagine being run using those rules" -- What I find is that people here will readily imagine that any game with the X-card at all is full of people constantly shitting themselves, crying, and/or curling up into balls. I think that says more about the delusions of people here than about the X-card. What I find in actual practice is that games with the X-card have been roughly the same as games without the X-card. People play their characters and have adventures.

The way the rules for X-cards and something like Contessa are and would be extremely disruptive too many tables imo. I'm not against the concept of a X-card or anything similar. I would never use them if someone else wants to they can.  Though I maintain that adults playing with adults should act like adults and talk it out with the table. It's the implementation and how too broad they are in. With removing any obligation of personal responsibility from a player to provide any reason why a issue, topic or subject is bothering them at the table. While everyone else has to guess what it is. Disrupts the entire game for everyone else and instead of helping the issue may increase resentment at the table. If a X-card is played no reason given and it ruins the game. Chances are very good I will ask the player not to come back. As a player I will tell the DM to not ask that player to come back. If their is a way to salvage the situation for both sides we will as a group. Sometimes their is no salvaging it and the player finds another table. Not to mention I refuse to be nanny, parent and amateur psychologist to players with mental illness. For one I'm not a professional nor is usually the other members of the group. we may end up doing more harm than good. To overcome something one must face it head on not hide away from it. A rpg session is for gaming not the equivalent of a psychologist chair. we have to empathize and sympathize to be sure. It's not our job to try and fix the person.

Quote from: Motorskills;1061857I think the growth in gaming in general, and women TTRP gamers in general is a result of a lot of factors. A big one is actually boardgaming, it's a powerful entry drug. Social media is also a huge driver, FaceBook, MeetUp, etc.

I'm not disputing that at all. What I do take issue with the the revisionist element SJWs try to push with the narrative being that women where kept out of the hobby because men forced them out. Yes some idiots did try to keep women out. Up until the last ten years or so many women were simply not that interested in tabletop rpgs. Again one cannot force interest on the target group if no interest is to be had nor force them to play.

Quote from: Motorskills;10618575e has itself been a huge driver. I've provided (very limited) support for a friend's young teens (all girls) playing Phandalin. I only sent them some links, they had already decided to start a game when the mother requested some help for her daughter. I didn't do anything special, and I certainly didn't bring them into the hobby. But someone did, and that's awesome.

Which awesome and proves that a rpg that is easy to get into, teach and run is going to have new players interested in learning. You-tube is a great way to showcase rpgs to the young people of today. Even if too many old gamers insist on remaining stubborn anti-tech Luddites in the hobby. Like it or hate onbline videos is the way to market and promote now.  

Quote from: Motorskills;1061857Are those girls fragile? Knowing the mother of just one of them, I very much doubt it. But the mother was still a little bit gunshy about the whole thing, we got snippets of updates over the following weeks, she was delighted that her daughter's group was having such a great time. I think she for one would be very happy to see the big convention etiquette banners, it might mean she was happy to send her kid and her friends to a convention.

I'm not saying a new or older players cannot have any kind of mental issues. We all are imperfect to some degree. I do take issue with rules removing and absolving player responsibility to inform the group of a information that would explain why some topics, subjects etc could be a issue. I hate spiders. I can't stand Daddy longlegs in particular. I would tell the DM I have issues with spiders as creatures used against the party. So if I seem uncomfortable to keep going because it's not enough of a issue to make the dM rework the encounters or make the game come to a stop. The X-card makes it so I don't have to say anything nor explain why I called for a stop at the game table. I can understand not having to tell the players. Not even telling the DM the issue. The Contessa rules would just drive me nuts. I may fast forward a scene where a npc or pc is being tortured. I'm not going to fast forward a scene every time I'm asked. It is done on a case by case basis.

Quote from: Motorskills;1061857Does that make the convention a "safe space" for those kids? I would certainly hope so, why not?

I don't like the concept of a safe space because it's not reality. Life is not a safe space. Unless it's part of the job description a job is not a safe space. Protecting people too much especially younger children does not prepare them for life. One of my friends who works wit younger people. Some of them expect to just show up and do their jobs and not be told when they make mistakes because they can't handle that kind of feedback. Some crying and in some cases two steps from rolling into a ball because unlike schools who give out dumb participation trophies just for showing up to a event. One is expected to perform to the levels of the company not what they think they should be doing. No one says anything when children act up then they grow up to be disrespectful, big mouthed little shits then they wonder why outside of their safe spaces they get the shit kicked out of them. Safe spaces like Communism is good on paper in reality it's not imo

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1061917Did carrying a gun for self-defense and using X-cards really get compared to each other?

I must have missed that?

Quote from: Motorskills;1061933This armchair psychology is fascinating - and bears zero relation to any of the very many FTF gaming experiences I have had.

Well, it should be, since armchair psychology is all you have been doing in this topic. Here's some more.  The quoted post is a great example of your usual throwaway deflection response when you don't have an answer to the point made.  In a few weeks or months, the topic will come up again.  Eventually, you'll annoy someone enough to make the same point.  You'll ignore it again.  

Oh wait, that's not armchair psychology.  That's merely a description of repeated, observed behavior.  It would be armchair psychology to speculate on why you repeatedly do this behavior.  I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

Quote from: nDervish;1061926Thanks for saying that.  It makes so much sense that I wish I'd thought of it myself.

"RPGs are telling stories, therefore they should conform to three-act structures, narrative beats, etc."

"RPGs are improvisational, therefore they should follow the rules of theatrical improv (Say Yes, etc.)"

"RPGs are role-playing, therefore they should incorporate the same safeguards as therapeutic role-playing exercises"

It's all just different flavors of the same BS.

Yes, with the same pitfalls, too.  On a surface scan, you might gain some analogous techniques that would be fine in an RPG.  Push it too far, or misunderstand the thing you are pulling from, or apply it in a way that doesn't fit RPGs, and you'll do more harm than good.  In all the cases you listed.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1061903What kind do you like?

I love spicy food and pickles, but I've not seen spicy pickles. Eaten lots of spicy pickled peppers and carrots, but not spicy cucumbers.

Actually I don't think of pickles as strictly cucumbers anymore. So yeah, kimchi, indian pickle (gree mango w/ chilis), pepperonchini, etc. is all in my mind when I think of it.

Unfortunately the cruel I.B.S. Gods have decreed a moratorium on my mortifications...


If the RPG combat is effectively pre-ordained that the PCs are going to win, then I'm bored to death if that combat drags out.

I wouldn't blame anyone wanting to FF through those.

I knew a GM during D&D 4e who ran combat theater of the mind and just used Extended Contests rules. It actually worked fine.

Death to the Encounter Budget! Death to the Challenge Rating! D&D is Great! lalalalalalala!

Quote from: S'mon;1061912I've never been clear why LARPs are not RPGs? I thought it was just a different format, like tabletop vs online?

Different rules, different play experiences, different forms of immersion, and often different goals for the game.

PvP is much more accepted in LARPS and the one-shot is the most common form of LARP by far. Often LARPS are entirely focused on PvP maneuvering to where its a social version of Diplomacy.

Also, costuming, set design and sound design can often be major parts of the LARP experience. XP and chargen are rarely issues, but there are boffer LARPS where those matter greatly.

Overall, its closer to improv theater than to RPGs.

I'm a fan of Fading Suns, both the RPG and the LARPs. The RPGs were mostly about adventures on various worlds, often with lots of gunfire, whereas the LARPS were mostly about the interplay between the Church / Nobles / Guilds.

Both were great fun, but each explored different aspects of the setting.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1061918That said, having dog attacks discussed in an RPG does not even remotely cause me anxiety because I know it's not real.

I suspect most of the X-card crowd is acting up because in their circle its chic to be a basket case and not because they've truly lost touch with reality when they play elf games. But it's probably they have a percentage of real deal nutcakes.

We've just become such a soft society of weaklings that the slightest twinge of not-happy sets these people into a tizzy...especially when they have an audience to coddle them and applaud their "courage".

Quote from: Motorskills;1061924I think you are reaching a little here. There's a gulf between physical assault and the protections of a day-care centre. General etiquette rules aim to serve to address that gulf.

No. Etiquette rules do nothing to protect a child in a public place.

It's akin to how "this is a gun free area" posters don't stop shootings.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1062031Unfortunately the cruel I.B.S. Gods have decreed a moratorium on my mortifications...

Research kimchi & sauerkraut for IBS. A buddy of mine swears by kefir and kimchi...and the occasional sonic ass boom.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1062047Research kimchi & sauerkraut for IBS. A buddy of mine swears by kefir and kimchi...and the occasional sonic ass boom.

Yes indeed, great for Old Guy's Acid Stomach too. It's all about the probiotics, so make sure the get the right kind of Kraut (hint: it's in the fridge section, not the shelf).

Thanks guys! I actually have been making my own lactic pickles (over standard vinegar pickles) for years now. Even got the kefir baccilus culture for when I wanna make kefir, (it is too dangerous to make your own milk culture mother outside lab conditions, btw. however, you can reuse a safe mother culture... so go ahead and pour some leftover kefir into some spare milk!). It works, but a good deal of the response is especially strong from extra vinegars, and chili peppers -- which includes pepperoni at times. The I.B.S. Gods are cruel...

But I can make a killer gochujang-free kimchi with Vietnamese fish sauce!

And X-Cards are still stupid passive-aggressive enabling, to avoid handling social negotiation with maturity. Time to stop infantilizing adults from their public etiquette responsibilities.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1062044Different rules, different play experiences, different forms of immersion, and often different goals for the game.

PvP is much more accepted in LARPS and the one-shot is the most common form of LARP by far. Often LARPS are entirely focused on PvP maneuvering to where its a social version of Diplomacy.

Also, costuming, set design and sound design can often be major parts of the LARP experience. XP and chargen are rarely issues, but there are boffer LARPS where those matter greatly.

Overall, its closer to improv theater than to RPGs.

I'm a fan of Fading Suns, both the RPG and the LARPs. The RPGs were mostly about adventures on various worlds, often with lots of gunfire, whereas the LARPS were mostly about the interplay between the Church / Nobles / Guilds.

Both were great fun, but each explored different aspects of the setting.




I suspect most of the X-card crowd is acting up because in their circle its chic to be a basket case and not because they've truly lost touch with reality when they play elf games. But it's probably they have a percentage of real deal nutcakes.

We've just become such a soft society of weaklings that the slightest twinge of not-happy sets these people into a tizzy...especially when they have an audience to coddle them and applaud their "courage".




No. Etiquette rules do nothing to protect a child in a public place.

It's akin to how "this is a gun free area" posters don't stop shootings.

Well I don't think etiquette rules are there for child protection per se, but they help set a welcoming tone, one that is easier to enforce if someone refuses to conduct themselves in a civilized manner. Everyone benefits from that, regardless of age.

Quote from: Zalman;1062057Yes indeed, great for Old Guy's Acid Stomach too. It's all about the probiotics, so make sure the get the right kind of Kraut (hint: it's in the fridge section, not the shelf).

I've heard the best sauerkraut is either canned or in the jars on the shelves.  Too many other things added to the refrigerated stuff... Really, it should be salt, (very little) water and cabbage, and nothing else.

Quote from: Franky;1062083Really, it should be salt, (very little) water and cabbage, and nothing else.

You're right about the ingredients, that's the stuff you'll find refrigerated.

X-Cards aren't about safety, they're about CONTROL. They allow people (as long as they're the right victimhood demographic) to STOP the entire game or threaten to do so whenever they want. And therefore, to hold the game hostage for them to censor at their whim.

Players have one right at the table: to walk the fuck away.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1062803X-Cards aren't about safety, they're about CONTROL. They allow people (as long as they're the right victimhood demographic) to STOP the entire game or threaten to do so whenever they want. And therefore, to hold the game hostage for them to censor at their whim.

Players have one right at the table: to walk the fuck away.

Agreed and seconded on both points. I will also add even the DM can walk away. Nothing remotely about a X-card means the dM has to stay behind.