If this was 5e's fault, then we would've seen it with red box basic and 2e back in the 80's. 5e is no less complex than those. This is really just a combination of new media platforms and 5e's marketing push on those platforms kicking exposure up. That said, 3e/4e probably isn't at all streaming friendly. I often watch actual plays of systems to get a feel for them and many of them are really painful to watch with the rule here, rule there, lookup modifier here, discuss mechanical tactic X, Y and Z to optimize bonus, etc. They flow like a lead square wheel in quick sand. It may be chess, but no one wants to watch chess.

It certainly could shape future editions to make them even more photogenic and we might see gaminess explored via other mechanics that are easy to pick up and drama well.

Quote from: tenbones;1061850From what?

It's not like if D&D was shut down by WotC on Hasbro's orders that roleplaying games would suddenly disappear.

From the obscurity it fell under.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1061906From the obscurity it fell under.

So I work with a HORDE of normies. None of them know what D&D is offhand from just the name. Like "Hey you know what D&D is?" It's still pretty obscure.

Some know what it is if I say "It's that game those little kids in Stranger Things were playing in Season 1." And their response is... "Oh... that's a real thing? That's weird."

Some older folks might remember it if I jog their memory, and they'll say "Isn't that Satanic?" (to which I respond: No it's Belgian.)

That said, I have no idea what evidence there is that 5e is killing off RPGs.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1061852Ghosts.

:eek: But I'm too lazy to run away that fast!

I think it's fair to say that D&D 5E is changing RPGs.

Quote from: Razor 007;1062037I think it's fair to say that D&D 5E is changing RPGs.

D&D 5e the game, or the non-game media based around it? The game itself doesn't really do anything revolutionary (that was one of the main points of 5e).

Quote from: HappyDaze;1062040D&D 5e the game, or the non-game media based around it? The game itself doesn't really do anything revolutionary (that was one of the main points of 5e).

The conglomeration of it all.  It's mapping a path for success.  It's like water; it just flows forward.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1062040D&D 5e the game, or the non-game media based around it? The game itself doesn't really do anything revolutionary (that was one of the main points of 5e).

Critical Role has been more influential on RPGs than all of WotC from 3e to 5e.

Quote from: Razor 007;1062045The conglomeration of it all.  It's mapping a path for success.  It's like water; it just flows forward.

I don't think a social media fad is a path for success.

At the moment, watching other people online do stuff is a thing. I don't know if that has longevity. Reality shows aren't the easy money cash cows they used to be.

Geek chic and superhero flicks aren't guaranteed to last. Enjoy the fad while you can.

Quote from: Haffrung;1061798And I do mean D&D - none of the dozen or more newbies I've played with in the last two years have any interest in any other RPGs.

That doesn't surprise me. Back in the ancient times, most of our gaming club only played AD&D and only bought TSR products. I'd say 60%. The rest of us either dabbled in other RPGs, or became junkies who wolfed down every new game and had to try everything . I think its a personality thing, but I also noticed that some of the dabblers only began looking at non-AD&D RPGs after a few years of involvement in the hobby.

We'll see what's up with these new gamers in a few years. If they haven't wandered over to the next zeitgeist YouTube sells them.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1062094I don't think a social media fad is a path for success.

At the moment, watching other people online do stuff is a thing. I don't know if that has longevity. Reality shows aren't the easy money cash cows they used to be.

I wouldn't be so sure. I have pre-teen kids, and to them and all their friends watching people on Youtube do stuff isn't just a thing. It's one of their primary forms of entertainment. I don't think it's simply a fad. Look at the longevity of professional sports to see how watching people do stuff can be a mainstream pastime for generations.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1062096That doesn't surprise me. Back in the ancient times, most of our gaming club only played AD&D and only bought TSR products. I'd say 60%. The rest of us either dabbled in other RPGs, or became junkies who wolfed down every new game and had to try everything . I think its a personality thing, but I also noticed that some of the dabblers only began looking at non-AD&D RPGs after a few years of involvement in the hobby.

This also pretty much sums up how I too began playing RPGs. I began with 1E D&&D. Switched to 2E. Then noticed an ad in one of Marvel comics for Robotech which had begun to be shown on North American TV at the time. Then Rifts, after that some OWOD then the rest was history. Chances are good unless one of the other members of the gaming group introduced me to another rpg. Or I came across another ad for a different rpg elsewhere I would have played D&D probably exclusively for many years.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1062096We'll see what's up with these new gamers in a few years. If they haven't wandered over to the next zeitgeist YouTube sells them.

Thanks to Critical Role and Stranger things while D&D may not be a household name it's also not an unknown imo. Sure not everyone knows about it yet it's not like in the 1980s-1990s where it was still a unknown. Unless it's a branded rpg say like Star Wars or Star Trek chances are good that many will not tune to watch the lesser known rpgers. It's not to say it will never happen. Yet I can see more viewers for the rpgers I listed in my post then say something Pundit would produce. It's not a knock against Pundit until I told them about his rpgs he was a virtual unknown in my gaming circle at least. These are not new members and have been playing for years.

Quote from: Haffrung;1062110I wouldn't be so sure. I have pre-teen kids, and to them and all their friends watching people on Youtube do stuff isn't just a thing. It's one of their primary forms of entertainment. I don't think it's simply a fad. Look at the longevity of professional sports to see how watching people do stuff can be a mainstream pastime for generations.

I don't know why members of our hobby insist on blindly being anti-tech luddites. Even for older kids and for many adults You-tube and similar places are their primary forms of entertainment. With the right set-up one can have almost cinema like sound and movie/picture quality at home. It's not a fad and I don't know why again why some insist it will be. Reminds me of some members and devs on other rpg forums insisting that PDFs were a fad. If anything it's getting hard to find some rpgs in stores with a POD option so that they can save on printing and shipping costs.

Quote from: Haffrung;1062110Look at the longevity of professional sports to see how watching people do stuff can be a mainstream pastime for generations.

And if you can appreciate how good the players are at the activity - compared to your amateur attempts  - it makes it better to watch not worse. (In my experience).

Quote from: Anselyn;1062120And if you can appreciate how good the players are at the activity - compared to your amateur attempts  - it makes it better to watch not worse. (In my experience).

True yet one has to watch with a open mind as well. If the attitude is going to be "it's a rpg that I don't like/play style I don't like it sucks ". Then no matter how good the players are at the activity means nothing to a narrow and close minded person.

In regards to Youtube, I don't see the bitches about it as much different that those of parents when I was growing up against TV and video games. For years my mother fought against us getting an Atari 2600 because "we would just sit on the couch and get fat". Funny thing, after the novelty wore of it went into rotation with all of our other activities.

Comparing Youtubers to professional sports doesn't sync up for me. Most of these people are just good amatuers (some not even all that good). I'm not aware of any youtubers with multi million dollar contracts. Much more comparable to high level amateur sports or local theater groups. It is kind of a disservice to many of them to compare to corporate sponsored media, it is much harder to turn out quality content on the budgets most of these people have. Most are just subject nerds with passion, which is of course why they can turn out good material. No overlords meddling in the content (Google / Youtube excepted).