Quote from: SHARK;1061759Greetings!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!! I'm *speechless*. My god, the stupid train just doesn't stop with these people. Fucking "safe and inclusive?" Oh, geesus. Go grab your fucking stuffed animal, you whiny fucking crybabies!

Just too much, Alderaan. God, that shit makes me want to smoke a good cigar and laugh at their stupidity train!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Glad I could entertain, brother! It's an annoying part of our hobby now, but how can anyone get truly angry at a mindset so fragile a Beanie Baby could hold it together?

Quote from: Motorskills;1061766But "psychologically fragile" and "freakshows" are just dandy with you?

Fuck that noise. I've seen many more problems at gaming over decades with socially aggressive behaviour.

Please remind me where I said any of that was good behavoir? My issue isn't with people with problems. My issue is with those people bringing those problems to an inappropriate venue, then disrupting others with them instead of being responsible for their problems in a mature way. Or worse, exploiting their self-awarded badge of victimhood to score points in a "game" nobody should be playing instead of enjoying the actual games people gathered to play.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1061768Please remind me where I said any of that was good behavoir? My issue isn't with people with problems. My issue is with those people bringing those problems to an inappropriate venue, then disrupting others with them instead of being responsible for their problems in a mature way. Or worse, exploiting their self-awarded badge of victimhood to score points in a "game" nobody should be playing instead of enjoying the actual games people gathered to play.

I think my point is that people who hold views like that would be bringing problems to any venues outside of a home game, and you should consider that as well. [They] don't like the warnings, because they suspect they will be subject to [them].

And again I'm called out for pointing out the significant increase in women in our hobby is in part due because the hobby as a whole is more welcoming - and yet that increase has not been matched by a proportionate increase on this forum. Funny that.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1061755So women are so weak they haven't been gaming because of shit like X-cards?

Typical SJW Regressive nonsense. Statements like that are a slap in the face to first and second wave feminists who fought for equality for women and that women can stand on their own. We live in a bizzaro world where women are both equal to men and can stand on their own yet not without the help of men or a special set of rules implying that women can't handle themselves. As that's not insulting and condescending to women at all

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1061755Those are absolutely stupid and probably created (and needed) by the same kinds of people who think coloring books and Playdough will save crying adults in college from scary President Trump.

Agreed and seconded. Those rules pretty much obliterated any and every desire I had to go to a Contessa sponsored convention let alone table. I though the X-Card was disruptive. These rules are 1000 times worse imo. Imagine if one plays with a bunch of easily offended, triggered players. Nothing would get done. Imagine how dumb that would look and sound. " consent light, pause, rewind, fast forward, script change". It would look like plain insanity to me.

Quote from: nDervish;1061760Not just using it, but doubling down on "don't tell anyone why you used the X-card, the GM will just magically know what the problem is".

(From the posted image: "Without needing anymore clarification, the GM/Storyteller will move on.")

Don't you know where terrible people for even calling out that the X-card is highly flawed. We are supposed to be mind readers. Waste 3-4 hours of game time and ruing the game for everyone and anyone else because a mechanism that should help a person avoid issues at the table. Also forces them to hide behind them and be disruptive.

Quote from: Motorskills;1061771And again I'm called out for pointing out the significant increase in women in our hobby is in part due because the hobby as a whole is more welcoming - and yet that increase has not been matched by a proportionate increase on this forum. Funny that.

I know your all about pushing a narrative. Did it ever occur to you and others that think like you that the increase is because women are recently becoming more interested in rpgs. I hate to tell you yet when I began in the mid 1980s in the hobby. Women were almost non-existent at least in my area. They would not be caught dead playing a tabeltop rpg. As they were the domain of "losers, nerds and geeks." Same thing with comics, fantasy/sci-fi novels and computer/video games. it was only in the mid 1990s at college and even later than that where I began to see more women playing rpgs at my college campus. Early 2000s where we began to see more women into comic books and video games. Now I'm not saying that no women did any of those activities before they were the exception not the norm. If their is no interest from a specific target group in an activity we can't very well force them to do it can we.

Now I'm sure you will ignore what I wrote because it does not fit into the narrative of women being barred from the hobby by us rapist, misogynistic, anti-women gamers. My gaming group tried when we started. If women look at you like a lower form of life-form for even asking why should we subject ourselves to that kind of ridicule and abuse it's hard to welcome them into the hobby. If needing a safe space for everything and anything as a person why would I want someone no matter their gender at my tables. I expect a certain amount of maturity from my players no matter their gender.  

Fell free to claim the the "EVEL GAMERS" kept women away on purpose because they were women narrative and special safe space rules were needed to join. It's all about the narrative and anything that goes against the carefully constructed personal narrative is both wrong and does not exist.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1061767Glad I could entertain, brother! It's an annoying part of our hobby now, but how can anyone get truly angry at a mindset so fragile a Beanie Baby could hold it together?

Not anger yet I have and will lose any respect for a grown-up who can't handle the real world and all it's issues. I understand if the person was victim of some kind of physical and/or mental trauma. If leaving one's home and being offended that a non-Italian dressed up like Super Mario ruins for Halloween or a costume party is quite frankly a man child whose parents should have been sent to parenting 101. Or forced to read Parenting for dummies. Call me an asshole for doing so yet why would I want to feel anything but embarrassment for a special snowflake who can't handle the real world and all it's various issues.

Quote from: Motorskills;1061771I think my point is that people who hold views like that would be bringing problems to any venues outside of a home game, and you should consider that as well. [They] don't like the warnings, because they suspect they will be subject to [them].

And again I'm called out for pointing out the significant increase in women in our hobby is in part due because the hobby as a whole is more welcoming - and yet that increase has not been matched by a proportionate increase on this forum. Funny that.

You don't know really know anyone that has suffered real trauma, do you?  Or at best, one or two outliers?  Because I can tell you that many people that have would disagree with your statements.  Specifically, what they want are structures that help.  

But the whole sleight of hand of the X-card is to move willy-nilly back and forth between possible people that may have trauma and those that don't, as if there was no distinction between them.  This sleight of hand is so those that don't can get the little thrill of pretending that they do.  If they knew the real thing, it would be less of a thrill.

Quote from: Motorskills;1061766Fuck that noise. I've seen many more problems at gaming over decades with socially aggressive behaviour.

I think that's true/fits my experience. But (again IME) GMs generally have no qualms dealing with aggressive players. Passive aggressive socjus type stuff by contrast is much harder to deal with effectively.

Quote from: Motorskills;1061771And again I'm called out for pointing out the significant increase in women in our hobby is in part due because the hobby as a whole is more welcoming - and yet that increase has not been matched by a proportionate increase on this forum. Funny that.

Do you think therpgsite fails to provide a Safe Space for women?

BTW what RPG bulletin board you know does have a high proportion of biologically female posters?

Many forums are "hostile" to most people.  Which is why there are a lot of gamers that don't participate on any forums.  For example, in my 20 odd players at the moment (nearly exactly 50/50 male/female, same as has been for over 30 years), I'm the only person that even lurks on a gaming forum of any kind.  My wife does participate in a crafting forum, but even that gets "hostile" enough to drive her away at times--and it is mostly women.

The contessa image outlining X-cards, traffic light colours, rewinding to redo things, fast forwards and so on is exactly the kind of thing I would have written to caricature this whole idea.

Quote from: sureshot;1061774I know your all about pushing a narrative. Did it ever occur to you and others that think like you that the increase is because women are recently becoming more interested in rpgs. I hate to tell you yet when I began in the mid 1980s in the hobby. Women were almost non-existent at least in my area. They would not be caught dead playing a tabeltop rpg. As they were the domain of "losers, nerds and geeks." Same thing with comics, fantasy/sci-fi novels and computer/video games. it was only in the mid 1990s at college and even later than that where I began to see more women playing rpgs at my college campus. Early 2000s where we began to see more women into comic books and video games. Now I'm not saying that no women did any of those activities before they were the exception not the norm. If their is no interest from a specific target group in an activity we can't very well force them to do it can we.

Now I'm sure you will ignore what I wrote because it does not fit into the narrative of women being barred from the hobby by us rapist, misogynistic, anti-women gamers. My gaming group tried when we started. If women look at you like a lower form of life-form for even asking why should we subject ourselves to that kind of ridicule and abuse it's hard to welcome them into the hobby. If needing a safe space for everything and anything as a person why would I want someone no matter their gender at my tables. I expect a certain amount of maturity from my players no matter their gender.  

Fell free to claim the the "EVEL GAMERS" kept women away on purpose because they were women narrative and special safe space rules were needed to join. It's all about the narrative and anything that goes against the carefully constructed personal narrative is both wrong and does not exist.

You said it before I could.

Quote from: Motorskills;1061771I think my point is that people who hold views like that would be bringing problems to any venues outside of a home game, and you should consider that as well. [They] don't like the warnings, because they suspect they will be subject to [them].

And again I'm called out for pointing out the significant increase in women in our hobby is in part due because the hobby as a whole is more welcoming - and yet that increase has not been matched by a proportionate increase on this forum. Funny that.

And/or...emotionally fragile/immature people who can't or won't deal with their shouldn't expect strangers to tiptoe around their problems. As far as women in the hobby I have two things to say: 1) sureshot's reply covers it well and 2) you can't say more women are in the hobby because gender is a social contruct you can't say who identifies as female. What's a little sad is that while my second point is a joke, it's not far from how many people view the world.

Quote from: Motorskills;1061771I think my point is that people who hold views like that would be bringing problems to any venues outside of a home game, and you should consider that as well. [They] don't like the warnings, because they suspect they will be subject to [them].

And again I'm called out for pointing out the significant increase in women in our hobby is in part due because the hobby as a whole is more welcoming - and yet that increase has not been matched by a proportionate increase on this forum. Funny that.

And/or...emotionally fragile/immature people who can't or won't deal with their shouldn't expect strangers to tiptoe around their problems. As far as women in the hobby I have two things to say: 1) sureshot's reply covers it well and 2) you can't say more women are in the hobby because gender is a social contruct you can't say who identifies as female. What's a little sad is that while my second point is a joke, it's not far from how many people view the world.

What should be addressed, if anything, isn't X-cards or such, it's what's proper at a gaming table with strangers at a public venue. With strangers at a public venue. I repeated it because none of these broad stroke "rules" should apply to a private group. Their dynamic is personal and private.

As has been mentioned several times before...which bears repeating...is to prevent odious issues from happening in the first place. Don't insert inappropriate things into a game. If a game is by its nature potentially odious, determine the "rating" beforehand and even then, leave the odious out. I don't care if you're running Kult for Slipknot, keep rape and molestation and child abuse and graphic violence out of it. It's that simple.

The reason I believe this won't happen is that it requires responsibility and maturity, which defangs the stupidity of potential narcissistic-victimhood. This, the perpetual victim, cannot allow. The salt must flow.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1061792And/or...emotionally fragile/immature people who can't or won't deal with their shouldn't expect strangers to tiptoe around their problems. As far as women in the hobby I have two things to say: 1) sureshot's reply covers it well and 2) you can't say more women are in the hobby because gender is a social contruct you can't say who identifies as female. What's a little sad is that while my second point is a joke, it's not far from how many people view the world.

To be fair I used to game with what could be called some real pieces of work and not in a good way. They lacked the emotional and social maturity to understand that if a person was the victim of some trauma telling them to " suck it up buttercup" is not the way to go. So on one hand I see the need for that to stop at tables because I would not want to game at such tables. On the other a refusal to mention what the issue is that is bothering a player at the table is also just as bad. As how is anything to be resolved if the table does not know what kind of behavior to change. It's a fine balance not easily achieved imo. Things like X-Card while helpful as they are defined are poorly implemented. Imagine a entire convention being run by contessa rules it would sound like a bunch of people tripping on some good shit imo.

Quote from: S'mon;1061786BTW what RPG bulletin board you know does have a high proportion of biologically female posters?

I would hazard a guess any forum that is a echo chamber that matches their views. Any other like this one that does not is not a welcoming place.