Quote from: HorusArisen;1059078Just make sure you grab him.

Touché, pussycat!

Quote from: Crusader X;1059079Giving credit where credit is due, at least WotC is supporting a good cause here:

https://www.customink.com/fundraising/wotcdndoperationgratitude2018

I'd like to know how much of the t-shirt sales goes to the charity. This could be just a PR stunt.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;1058848You know there's "Separate the art from the artist" and all but at the end of the day I'm not going to make life easier on someone who hates me, or would take violent action (or promote violent action) against me or the people I care about.  Mike Mearls called me a terrorist.  Why the fuck should I move the line graph up 1/10000th of a pixel for him?  I won't.  A little more extrapolated: someone mentioned upthread that Varg Vierkennes was a violent terrorist (and he is, and has admitted so, and is also a murderer and a violent homophobe).  Well, once he got out of prison for burning down churches, he and his girlfriend were pulled over and searched, and guess what?  They found multiple weapons he shouldn't have had, and incendiary devices.  When asked what it was for, he said "I'm going to go burn down more churches."

What do I do when Mr. Vierkennes decides a more direct route, such as bombings and shootings, are the way forward?  For HS graduation, my kids are touring Europe with their grandparents.  What happens when he makes his political statement somewhere they're visiting?  I'm not fucking giving him money to shoot or bomb anyone, but especially my own kids.

I won't support game creators who are pro-Antifa.  If they're contributing to those groups, they're contributing to shitheads like Eric Clanton, who was found guilty of one and perpetrated several other violent assaults.  Why should I help make life easier on Eric Clanton?

It's not just a matter of saying, "Well, whatever they have their opinions..."  Some of these people pour money into groups or, in the case of VV, is that group of dangerous, violent people.  There's the line, for me.  A games creator wants to talk about how much they hate the sitting president, Donald Trump?  Hey, they can knock themselves out.  I start to see shit like "attack Trump supporters"?  Thanks but no thanks, you can keep your products to yourself, I'm not funding your BS.  I don't care how allegedly good it is.

I think this sums it up for me. I won't put money in the pocket of people like this.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1059083Everything is moving to digital, and the Ministry of Right Think have demonstrated they're fully capable of deplatforming anyone they don't like. They can ban you from #Twitter, suspend your #Patreon, prevent you from using #Kickstarter, disable your #MasterCard, take your videos down on #YouTube, deindex you on #Google, and even take the domain name you paid for away. And when they can't do this through legal means they resort to #Doxxing, #DDOS, and extortion. Their ultimate aim is to prevent anyone they don't like from accessing financial services or using the internet entirely.

They also get you blacklisted from good jobs. And if they could have you blocked from buying groceries, get your lease terminated, or have your loans foreclosed on, they'd do that, too. What you're describing is social terrorism, which is using a fear of significant harm to your ability to participate in society, not your physical body, to enforce political conformity. That's not okay. It isn't murder, but it's not a whole lot different from burning down somebody's church in my book. Mearls is increasingly throwing his lot in with those people.

Quote from: FeloniousMonk;1058969Like when Pundit is so desperately flailing for attention that he attacks a gay DM who teaches at an all girls school who runs an all girls (8-11) game at said school... and the gay DM teacher has had zero communication with Pundit: https://twitter.com/kasimirurbanski/status/1047988621859536897?s=21

Does that qualify?

Sexuality (of any flavor) is never a shield against questioning or criticism.

Kinda the whole point of equality.

Quote from: JeremyR;1058983It really shows the danger of calling everyone a racist, Nazi, etc, because when someone comes along who actually is one, the words have lost all power.

All the -ists are dead.

Quote from: Melan;1058981Fortunately for people who dislike hard decisions, MYFAROG is junk even without the racism, so everyone can sleep easily. But what if it really was a work of creative genius? That would be inconvenient.

There's a 1000 of D&D heartbreakers on DriveThruRPG and without Varg's name and all the free publicity the imbeciles give him, nobody would have known about MYFROG.

But you're right. It's easy to say nope to crap, but what about awesome work by asshats?

I've thought about it and I know I'd buy it. I love Polanski movies. If the dude makes another flick, he's got my dollar and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he did the nasty with a minor back in the day and that wasn't his only creepy underage sexy time. But I think the dude is a genius of film.

I've wondered about what would happen if Iron Maiden was caught eating babies. What would I do with my dozen Maiden shirts? I know myself and I'd not deny myself what I enjoy, regardless if people freaked the fuck out about it. To me, my enjoyment of something trumps pretty much any other concern.

Fuck it. Up the Irons! Eat the tasty babies!

That's the thing. FATAL would never have been anything more than a nasty wank fantasy tucked away on the website of some university's Faculty of Philosophy (really!) if RPGNet didn't latch onto it as the Great Outrage of Gaming. Same with MYFAROG, which lives on for the one and only reason that Varg is Internet-infamous. That's fairly easy stuff.

I also love The Fearless Vampire Killers, a Polanski movie. I also think he is a monster who should have been put away in the 1970s to serve his time. Unfortunately, my favourite film director, Fritz Lang, was a Harvey Weinstein-level dirtbag and all around bad man. And also a genius filmmaker. There are easy answers here, but I don't think they are good ones.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1059491Sexuality (of any flavor) is never a shield against questioning or criticism.

Kinda the whole point of equality.




All the -ists are dead.




There's a 1000 of D&D heartbreakers on DriveThruRPG and without Varg's name and all the free publicity the imbeciles give him, nobody would have known about MYFROG.

But you're right. It's easy to say nope to crap, but what about awesome work by asshats?

I've thought about it and I know I'd buy it. I love Polanski movies. If the dude makes another flick, he's got my dollar and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he did the nasty with a minor back in the day and that wasn't his only creepy underage sexy time. But I think the dude is a genius of film.

I've wondered about what would happen if Iron Maiden was caught eating babies. What would I do with my dozen Maiden shirts? I know myself and I'd not deny myself what I enjoy, regardless if people freaked the fuck out about it. To me, my enjoyment of something trumps pretty much any other concern.

Fuck it. Up the Irons! Eat the tasty babies!

Greetings!

You know, Spinachcat, your post made me laugh. UP THE IRONS!!!! (I confess. I'm a long-time fan of Iron Maiden. I've seen them in concert numerous times; I have most of their albums. I got the T-shirt, too bro. LOL)

But, your commentary reminds me of something I learned when I was in college, with my literature class. The huge revelation?

About 80% or more of all of your artistic folks--artists, painters, authors, poets, actors, musicians, whatever--are in some way, fucked up. In what I've read and discussed with my professor, many of them have weird sexual kinks; they're gay or lesbian; they're polygamists, into "polyamoury" group orgies, incest, underage sex, dungeon sex, and on and on. Many of them have weird political ideas; ferocious religious views--both for religion, authoritarian types, as well as anti-religion, free-love hippies. Economically, they are all over the map, too. Oh, and lots of smoking, alcohol, and drugs, as well. Disfunctional fucked up childhoods, disasterous marriages, abortions, kids out of wedlock. The drama train is all over the place.

I asked my professor why all of these brilliant people--these great artists that have given society so much--why are so many of them fucked up with so many problems? He said to me,

"That's a very good observation. It is true. Many artists of all kinds throughout the years have been plagued with numerous problems, relationships, religion, alcohol, drugs, and many more. It's a tragedy, for sure. I suspect that it has something to do with exactly that drama, that pain, that struggle with whatever demons they have suffered from in their lives, it is that struggle that has inspired within them, with their artistic passion, as an expression and a pursuit that helps them in some way in dealing with their lives of struggle and tragedy."

So, right or left, don't be surprised that any artist--even the best and most noble--is somehow at least partially driven by some kind of pain and drama in their lives.

The worst ones? Yeah, expect a lot of them to be deep freaks of one flavour or another. lol.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

For me, the line has been just ripping off their customers.  There are a few things from Adamant Entertainment I'd pick up in pdf, but not until Far West shows up (knowing full well that may be never).  There's some old Palladium stuff I'd like to go back to (ya, I know), but I just can't with the way they've completely scammed people on the Robotech Kickstarter.  I wasn't even in on that one.

I guess if someone got to the point of legitimately calling for violence because of someone's religion/politics/lifestyle, that would do it.  Apart from this Varg guy, I haven't seen that yet.

Quote from: Melan;1059495That's the thing. FATAL would never have been anything more than a nasty wank fantasy tucked away on the website of some university's Faculty of Philosophy (really!) if RPGNet didn't latch onto it as the Great Outrage of Gaming. Same with MYFAROG, which lives on for the one and only reason that Varg is Internet-infamous. That's fairly easy stuff.

It is completely incomprehensible to me that people were upset by FATAL. It's the funniest thing to ever happen on the internet, and what makes it even funnier is the guy who made it was serious.

Quote from: SHARK;1059506About 80% or more of all of your artistic folks--artists, painters, authors, poets, actors, musicians, whatever--are in some way, fucked up. In what I've read and discussed with my professor, many of them have weird sexual kinks; they're gay or lesbian; they're polygamists, into "polyamoury" group orgies, incest, underage sex, dungeon sex, and on and on. Many of them have weird political ideas; ferocious religious views--both for religion, authoritarian types, as well as anti-religion, free-love hippies. Economically, they are all over the map, too. Oh, and lots of smoking, alcohol, and drugs, as well. Disfunctional fucked up childhoods, disasterous marriages, abortions, kids out of wedlock. The drama train is all over the place.

A large fraction of everyone is fucked up in some way when you dig down - though they don't always wear it on their sleeve. More, I don't agree that many of these really qualify as being fucked up. For example, smoking, drinking, or being gay or lesbian - or strong religious views...  None of those are being fucked up - they're generally part of normal, healthy lives.

Getting past made-up statistics, there are some studies that top artists in their field have a higher rate of mood disorders and suicide - but that's often based on very limited statistics of a few hundred celebrities. People at the top of their field are often highly driven and under tremendous pressure, and can have a higher rate of suicide - regardless of what field it is. When looking at a higher statistics sample, recent studies suggest that creative people are more often related to those with schizophrenia and, bipolar disorder, and anorexia nervosa - but don't have mental illness themselves.

cf. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-real-link-between-creativity-and-mental-illness/

Quote from: jhkim;1059543A large fraction of everyone is fucked up in some way when you dig down - though they don't always wear it on their sleeve. More, I don't agree that many of these really qualify as being fucked up. For example, smoking, drinking, or being gay or lesbian - or strong religious views...  None of those are being fucked up - they're generally part of normal, healthy lives.

Getting past made-up statistics, there are some studies that top artists in their field have a higher rate of mood disorders and suicide - but that's often based on very limited statistics of a few hundred celebrities. People at the top of their field are often highly driven and under tremendous pressure, and can have a higher rate of suicide - regardless of what field it is. When looking at a higher statistics sample, recent studies suggest that creative people are more often related to those with schizophrenia and, bipolar disorder, and anorexia nervosa - but don't have mental illness themselves.

cf. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-real-link-between-creativity-and-mental-illness/

Greetings!

Perhaps I should have been more specific. Across time--many of these characteristics were considered strange or aberrant to one degree or another. Depending on the society and the time frame of course. Women smoking cigarettes for example; people smoking weed; different artists being gay or lesbian in the 1700 or 1800's; holding unusual religious or political views during *their* time, that kind of thing. In the many examples I was thinking of--so many of them did not seem to just have a normal, happy life. I was struck by the numerous pathologies and trauma which so many seemed to grapple with. Also including things like suicide and insanity, as well. That was my point. Their lives seemed to have far more trauma and problems--of whatever kind--than normal, "non-artistic" types.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1059523It is completely incomprehensible to me that people were upset by FATAL. It's the funniest thing to ever happen on the internet, and what makes it even funnier is the guy who made it was serious.

Not only was he serious, he seemed slightly dismayed that people didn't understand that he was serious.  Rather like "John Norman" did about his Gor novels.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;1059662Not only was he serious, he seemed slightly dismayed that people didn't understand that he was serious.  Rather like "John Norman" did about his Gor novels.

I feel like you've got to be about as dumb as a bag of hammers, or socialize with the most unhumorous bunch of church ladies this side of Prohibition, if you didn't bust a gut laughing when you first heard the words, "Anal circumference table."

Quote from: jhkimA large fraction of everyone is fucked up in some way when you dig down - though they don't always wear it on their sleeve. More, I don't agree that many of these really qualify as being fucked up. For example, smoking, drinking, or being gay or lesbian - or strong religious views... None of those are being fucked up - they're generally part of normal, healthy lives.

Quote from: SHARK;1059555Perhaps I should have been more specific. Across time--many of these characteristics were considered strange or aberrant to one degree or another. Depending on the society and the time frame of course. Women smoking cigarettes for example; people smoking weed; different artists being gay or lesbian in the 1700 or 1800's; holding unusual religious or political views during *their* time, that kind of thing. In the many examples I was thinking of--so many of them did not seem to just have a normal, happy life. I was struck by the numerous pathologies and trauma which so many seemed to grapple with. Also including things like suicide and insanity, as well. That was my point. Their lives seemed to have far more trauma and problems--of whatever kind--than normal, "non-artistic" types.

I suspect there is a perception bias in that people with ordinary, happy lives don't sell biographies as well. Further, I think both in history and today, normal lives often aren't happy. Particularly once you get outside of plutocrats and kings, many people in history have a lot of trauma and problems. I'm not sure that artists have had more trauma - versus their stories of trauma being told more.

In any case, regarding modern-day RPG writers, my impression is that they aren't especially problem-laden or trauma-filled, except for being poor - since writing RPGs isn't very lucrative.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1059665I feel like you've got to be about as dumb as a bag of hammers, or socialize with the most humorous bunch of church ladies this side of Prohibition, if you didn't bust a gut laughing when you first heard the words, "Anal circumference table."

It's long disappeared from the internet, and my copy was about three computers ago, but back in the old days of rpg.net some guy put out "A Man And His Pet Flea Spot" which was not, as you might have expected, an rpg about pets or fleas. Its cover page was a crude line drawing of the back of a guy with his pants down looking at some giant breasts, jerking off and ejaculating all over them. It was about a dozen pages, and all I remember of the rules was the authour saying, "the funniest things in the world are Nazis, midgets, and anal rape, so every adventure must include at least one of those three, ideally in every campaign there'll be at least one scene where the PCs are being anally raped by Nazi midgets."

Basically it was FATAL Lite, though the authour seemed not to be taking himself seriously. I say that if you really have to make your rpg offensive, at least do it with a low page count.