Stuff like this is why I avoid stuff like Adventurers League and Pathfinder Society like the plague.

SHARK, I am sorry about your awful group experiences and honestly, even though I am a relatively young man (I'm twenty-five) I also sort of get pissed at the munchkins and murder-hobos such as the ones you mentioned in your group.

Now, don't get me wrong, they've been a part of the hobby since the beginning but now it seems more prevalent than ever. Especially when combined with special snowflake race-and-class combos and edgelord character concepts that just don't make sense.

I mean, we've all been there at one point when we were younger. My first D&D character I ever played was a brooding Neutral Evil Drow working with the good guys for sake of convenience (Hey, I was thirteen at the time!) but now that I have grown older, I realize that the classic old-school way is often the better and more enjoyable way, at least for me.

Stuff like heroism and fighting for honor and glory, and as I grow older, the more I realize that it's more fun and often more interesting to play a heroic Human than a fancy Dragonborn or Tiefling. Nowadays nearly all my characters are Human (though I may occasionally be tempted to play a Half-Elf)

Overall, I really dig the old-school style of the 1970's and 1980's. Sometimes I may add a few new tweaks such as some mild anime influences or a "gonzo" setting with some sci-fi or post-apocalyptic overtones, but more and more I try to keep it Old-School.

Quote from: SHARK;1059302... We arrive back, to see the fucking Tiefling standing behind the old bearded man, enjoying his food. The Tiefling proceeds to cut the older man's throat from behind, killing him instantly. The woman screams, and the Tiefling siezes her, and swiftly plunges his shortsword into her belly, several times, in and out in a savage blur. The woman collapses, blood gushing from her belly, and she dies. The Tiefling laughs maniacally in triumph. (The Tiefling player, smiles proudly at the table, and says emphatically, "I'm an Assassin, Bro. It's what I do. I enjoy killing people." He then laughs smugly.

My character wanted to run the fucker through with my Greatsword right there, on the spot. Of course, we can't do that. I sat there with my mouth open in shock. My friend, the party Cleric, he just looked at me grimly. I could see his whole face tighten in rage. He was pissed as all fuck. I just looked at the fucking Tiefling's player, and told him "I can't believe you just fucking did that. Fucking unbelievable."

The rest of the party didn't do anything to stop the Tiefling or seek to intervene in any way. In fact, they just giggled themselves, smiling and approving the Tiefling. The DM was even smiling. ...

Wow, and there it is.

To me that sounds like time to say, "Here's what I do..." and try to kill the Tiefling.

AL rules may say a PC can't attack another PC, but if, as others mentioned, PCs can't do what the Tiefling did, the Tiefling is now an NPC or player-adversary, and fair game. If the DM resists, I'd say my character becomes an adversary and/or NPCs if need be, but what he'd do is attack the Tiefling.

In any case, getting away from playing with those players and that DM seem like the thing to do, to me. Sounds like the DM should be reported to the AL people, too.

Quote from: Skarg;1059389Wow, and there it is.

To me that sounds like time to say, "Here's what I do..." and try to kill the Tiefling.

AL rules may say a PC can't attack another PC, but if, as others mentioned, PCs can't do what the Tiefling did, the Tiefling is now an NPC or player-adversary, and fair game. If the DM resists, I'd say my character becomes an adversary and/or NPCs if need be, but what he'd do is attack the Tiefling.

For my brother's Pathfinder campaign, I made up a Githyanki Assassin, out of the desire to play an "evil" PC "right". I play him as a kind of Garak from DS9 character. My character is evil, and will kill people, but not in such a childish way as simply stabbing everyone in sight. I play him smart, amoral, but with the knowledge that if he honks people off, they're going to try and kill him.

I'm not a fan of the GM playing escalation, but it sounds like that AL group could use a dose of concequences for their characters.
But, as I said from the beginning, it's probably best to just find a group that doesn't suck.

If I was the DM, one of those NPC's would turn out to be an Ancient Silver Dragon in disguise!!!

Those overly dickish players need to be taught a lesson.

Quote from: SHARK;1059211Greetings!

Excellent point, Jeff. My buddy mentioned to me, saying

"How can these morons act like this? They hurt the party's mission; their characters do things that are blatantly chaotic and evil; these morons do things often that are morally offensive and provocative--and of course, by the house rules, we can't socially correct these people *in character* or out-of-character; thus, it falls on the DM to correct them, or otherwise bring to their attention how needlessly abrasive their character's behavior is--and yet, does he bother to do any of this? NOPE. He just sits there and laughs right along with them."

That does bother me, philosophically. Life has consequences--and yet, many of these players can literally do whatever they want--no matter how evil, no matter how dishonourable--and we cannot say anything or do anything to correct them, to show them how what they have done is wrong. Or, just outright punish them for being idiots. They can do whatever they want, and don't have to experience any consequences for their behavior--from us, or the DM.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

If I could not say anything, then I would have to leave.

Quote from: SHARK;1059212Greetings!

Damn Straight, Opaopajr. These raging fucksticks--that made me laugh, too!--where do they get all of this rage from? Why are these fucksticks so angry? Beyond that, why do they believe it is acceptable behavior--in a social group ostensibly trying to accomplish a mission--to act as moronically evil, stupid, and anti-socially as possible?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Because this is how people behave when there is no attempt to teach any types of morals or ethics during childhood.

Quote from: SHARK;1059302We arrive back, to see the fucking Tiefling standing behind the old bearded man, enjoying his food. The Tiefling proceeds to cut the older man's throat from behind, killing him instantly. The woman screams, and the Tiefling siezes her, and swiftly plunges his shortsword into her belly, several times, in and out in a savage blur. The woman collapses, blood gushing from her belly, and she dies. The Tiefling laughs maniacally in triumph. (The Tiefling player, smiles proudly at the table, and says emphatically, "I'm an Assassin, Bro. It's what I do. I enjoy killing people." He then laughs smugly.

That was IMO the time to walk. Others will disagree with me, but that guy is real world evil, not just in game evil. I won't game with people like that.

Just go find another group or start your own game. There's two of you, so surely you can find one more and then grow from there.

Quote from: Razor 007;1059393If I was the DM, one of those NPC's would turn out to be an Ancient Silver Dragon in disguise!!!

Those overly dickish players need to be taught a lesson.

Not in AL. You're not in true control of the table as an AL DM. You're just a puppet DM. The most you could do would be to close the table for the night (at least I think you can do that...).

Quote from: Skarg;1059389Wow, and there it is.

To me that sounds like time to say, "Here's what I do..." and try to kill the Tiefling.

AL rules may say a PC can't attack another PC, but if, as others mentioned, PCs can't do what the Tiefling did, the Tiefling is now an NPC or player-adversary, and fair game. If the DM resists, I'd say my character becomes an adversary and/or NPCs if need be, but what he'd do is attack the Tiefling.

In any case, getting away from playing with those players and that DM seem like the thing to do, to me. Sounds like the DM should be reported to the AL people, too.

Greetings!

Hi Skarg! Yeah, "Wow, and there it is." So damned true, my friend.

A few weeks later, another wonderful scenario unfolded as we made our way through The Tomb of Annihilation campaign;

The group had made it to this weird, ancient city, which seemed to be mostly in ruins. As a human Barbarian, I had boosted my Constitution by this time, so that I was rocking something like 77 Hit Points. I had greater strength, higher constitution, and more hit points than any other member of the group. Consequently, I was usually the lead, pushing forward scouting, and to take on any foes seeking to ambush us. My goal was to always gain the attention and focus of any opponents, so they would not target the weaker members of the party. As the stupid "Death Curse" thing prevailed, there was no raise dead possible, so any characters that died would be essentially fucked. Sure enough, we encountered some enemies, and when they were defeated, in a nearby building, we discovered a native human, cowering in fear. Once we introduced ourselves and made our intentions clear, the native tribesman agreed to help our party as we explored the ancient city, acting as our guide and interpreter. The native tribesman was not only knowledgeable of the city and the environment, but also with the local legends and mythology. Most importantly, however, the native tribesman was fluent in several local languages, including the cryptic inscriptions and writings upon the ruins and monuments around us.

By this time, I should note, the Tiefling Assassin was no longer with the group. We had at this juncture, 7 members in the party. We were running with 6, but for tonight, we gained a new member. This guy was a Half Orc Barbarian. We then move along, and encounter some monuments which have weird inscriptions on them. Our faithful guide proceeds to translate for us, and we are eagerly learning things as we go. We fight some more monsters, and we emerge victorious. At this point, as the fight was tough, we decide to make a quick camp to heal and recuperate, at least for 5 or 6 hours, before we plan to march onward.

Some ways at the edge of our encampment, the Half Orc Barbarian is asking our faithful, native guide to translate some nearby inscriptions. The guide offers his translation, telling the Half Orc Barbarian that the inscriptions are actually some kind of graffitti, telling the observer that "heretics and assholes are not allowed in our city" or something close to that. So, our guide tells the Half Orc Barbarian what the meaning of the graffitti is, in translation.

What do you imagine happened next? How do you think the Half Orc Barbarian responded to our faithful guide and interpreter? WAIT FOR IT....!!! LOL.


The Half Orc Barbarian grabbed our guide by the head, holding him up against the pillar, and snarled into his face, "You can't insult me that way!" and then rammed his broadsword through our guide's throat, killing him instantly.

How's the saying go, "You can't make this shit up!"? I wish this was not a reality, but over a period of several weeks, sixish or so, we have had three different players who join our group for one session, or maybe two or three, and they have all done monstrous stupid shit like this, all laughing maniacally. This was the third or maybe fourth instance of some fucking moron behaving this way. The rest of the group, 4 or 5 of them, as noted are regulars, but while they don't do things as eggregiously stupid and evil, they consistently laugh and giggle like morons, and encourage these kinds of jackasses. And they aren't all teenagers. The DM consistently laughs right along with them, glowing in his approval of their evil antics, and how such fucks the party. The DM announced to the party, "Well, now your faithful guide is dead. You have no one who can translate the mysterious inscriptions anymore!" He said this with an obvious, smug certainty. The Freak Train just doesn't stop with these people.

My buddy tells me later on as we're driving, "What the fuck is wrong with these people? At every turn, we have some jackass that joins our group, with no sense of honor, morality, or loyalty to the group. They always seem to love killing innocent NPC's--not enemies--which can otherwise help us. The folks at the flying ship, the coloured frog people, our guide tonight. Goddamn this shit pisses me the fuck off. Members of the group are supposed to want to HELP THE GROUP--not fuck us at every goddamn opportunity, as they giggle and jerk themselves. These fuckstick's antics get fucking old with me, brother."

*sigh* He says to me,

"It seems like us, and our normal groups are just from a different era, man. I've never seen anyone act this stupid and evil in your campaigns, SHARK. Ever. And yet here we see idiots like this on a fucking weekly basis."

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Well, if you are shielded from the consequences of your actions, then this is the glorious result. :mad:

It matters not the venue for rat-fuckery, be it: anonymity on the internet (or plausible deniability in politics and alphabet soup agencies), distance on Xbox Live and the like, or coherent setting consequences from a hog-tied GM in an Organized Play RPG society. If you forever get mindless mercy -- not receiving what you justly deserve from your actions -- then you will persist on doing that. It's the nature of life and exploiting advantages.

I think you've seen your second sign that this will not get better by the participation of you two.

No gaming is better than bad gaming.

Quote from: KingCheops;1059180This isn't anything new.  I encountered this a lot when running games in University back in the early aughts.  Doesn't matter the edition either.

Early aughts? That sort of behavior has been around since 1974.

I imagine that AL rules don't let you roleplay being suspicious of new half-orc barbarians and other random people showing up to "join the party", and keeping an eye on them and not letting them near the prisoners... sigh.

Quote from: Skarg;1059470I imagine that AL rules don't let you roleplay being suspicious of new half-orc barbarians and other random people showing up to "join the party", and keeping an eye on them and not letting them near the prisoners... sigh.

The problem isn't random half-orc barbarians; it's the random players of whom one needs to be suspicious.

Shark, you're playing AL which is barely RPGing. Your OP sounds like "OMG, I went to a bar and it was full of drunks!'

Org Play is a munchkin magnet. It's been that way since 2e's RPGA Living City allowed Kits. But munchkin asshats buy books constantly so Org Play will cater to them.

As for you, gather your own crew and run something that supports the fantasy enjoy.