Quote from: RPGPundit;1058168The only good transhumanist game I've ever seen was Mindjammer.

What's so good about MJ and what's bad about the rest?

I've been wanting to get into that genre but have no clue where to start.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1058359What's so good about MJ and what's bad about the rest?

I've been wanting to get into that genre but have no clue where to start.

I know of 4.

Eclipse Phase (own d100 system and FATE offerings)
Nova Praxis (Savage Worlds and Strands of FATE versions)
Transhuman Space (GURPS only I think?)
Mindjammer(FATE and Traveler I think?)

I was assuming Mindjammer had a d20 version, but maybe Traveler scratches enough osr niches to work.

The main issue with transhumanist RPGs is that they are complicated or in FATE.
Even Nova Praxis offers basically the most complicated version of Savage Worlds (even if it doesn't play as hard as Supers does).

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058295I also confess to being something of a pessimist and don't think we as a people will ever achieve 'transhumanism'.  It'll likely end up cyberpunk whether or not we are trying for it.

If bodymodding and biotech ever takes off what we will end up with is a biopunk setting like in the amazing Engine setting Chromosome, only more so. Or end up in a post apoc setting akin to d20m Gamma World which was transhumanism taken to just about its oft horriffic limits... Biopunk has the potential to way outpace cyberpunk on the misuse and abuse front.

D20m GW explored many aspects. Mind hacking, ideology wars where sides were literally force converting people, biomodding of all sorts both human and animal, rampant nanotech assisting in these endeavors, swappable/modular biotech, mind transfers that erase the host, hive mind biotech that turns everyone into a copy of the core, and have I mentioned the supplement that introduced the option to have a sexually transmitted PC recently? Yes. Well too bad! Here it is again because this was that fucked up of a setting. And more.

Eclipse Phase is a cool transhuman cyberpunk RPG if you rip out the entire plot and substitute your own.  The mechanics are pretty nice, actually.

Quote from: Omega;1058374If bodymodding and biotech ever takes off what we will end up with is a biopunk setting like in the amazing Engine setting Chromosome, only more so. Or end up in a post apoc setting akin to d20m Gamma World which was transhumanism taken to just about its oft horriffic limits... Biopunk has the potential to way outpace cyberpunk on the misuse and abuse front.

D20m GW explored many aspects. Mind hacking, ideology wars where sides were literally force converting people, biomodding of all sorts both human and animal, rampant nanotech assisting in these endeavors, swappable/modular biotech, mind transfers that erase the host, hive mind biotech that turns everyone into a copy of the core, and have I mentioned the supplement that introduced the option to have a sexually transmitted PC recently? Yes. Well too bad! Here it is again because this was that fucked up of a setting. And more.

I couldn't agree more. When you consider people like Pixee Fox (removed six ribs to have world's tiniest waist), Eva Tiamat Medusa (ears and nose removed as part of dragon transformation), and others, it's clear that there are already a large number of people who are willing to modify their bodies in very extreme ways. If/when bio mods get added in, we are going to see some wild stuff.

Quote from: Omega;1058374D20m GW explored many aspects. Mind hacking, ideology wars where sides were literally force converting people, biomodding of all sorts both human and animal, rampant nanotech assisting in these endeavors, swappable/modular biotech, mind transfers that erase the host, hive mind biotech that turns everyone into a copy of the core, and have I mentioned the supplement that introduced the option to have a sexually transmitted PC recently? Yes. Well too bad! Here it is again because this was that fucked up of a setting. And more.

Was this the Arthaus/White Wolf version of Gamma World, because I don't remember it being half that cool.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1058359What's so good about MJ and what's bad about the rest?

I've been wanting to get into that genre but have no clue where to start.

I said it before, but I'll say it again: try tracking down Lesser Shades of Evil.

Basically, the premise is that you're a lowly peasant who seeks out angels (for whatever reason(s)), and end up becoming one.  You can design a new body for yourself, and then another, and another, and run multiple bodies at the same time.  And your role is being a kind of Old Testament sort of angel, watching over the mortals and enforcing the laws of God (who you have yet to meet).  Except you soon realize (or it may have already happened, if you go by the book) that there's a civil war among the angels, and sides are being taken.  And -then- you realize the angels are really just uplifted mortals using technology to literally play god with the world, and their civil war is a -literal- family feud being held by people who have gone insane with power and near-immortality.

There's neat stuff about "advanced technology looking like magic", memetic warfare and programming, rogue AIs wandering around, variant races of humanity, and so on.  Most of it has actually been done by other games, but I found LSoE to be the only one to really hammer home the idea that maybe all of this tech isn't really good and what's being preserved isn't really human as we'd appreciate it anymore.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;1058480Eclipse Phase is a cool transhuman cyberpunk RPG if you rip out the entire plot and substitute your own.  The mechanics are pretty nice, actually.

Could you give a quick rundown of the rules?  I'm not a huge percentile fan (just Palladium) so it didn't really catch me.  I thought Altered Carbon was cool as hell however so using this system to run that setting might be interesting.

Sorry if that is off topic.

Quote from: sureshot;1058326Agreed and seconded. One of the more intolerant religions is suddenly more "tolerant" in the future. Yet Catholicism while having some flaws is not. Given how none of the major relgious figures in scripture did not step foward to stop the AI from destroying Earth. Where afterlife and death becomes a joke. Most if not all major established religions would be having major to minor existential crises imo. Yet somehow Islam is flexible.

It's like the virtue-signalling SJW who wrote it doesn't know anything about Islam beyond "lots of brown people follow it". That's the only way I can make any sense of the fact that many "progressives" are simultaneously virulently opposed to Christianity and Judaism as regressive, repressive, conservative faiths, yet are "allies" of Muslims who are for the most part even more regressive, repressive and conservative.

The religious Right has nothing on the conservatism and literalism of relatively mainstream Muslim voices, never mind Islamists. Nor is Islam flexible at all, it's the "final truth" which isn't to be altered or re-interpreted.

Quote from: Kiero;1058546The religious Right has nothing on the conservatism and literalism of relatively mainstream Muslim voices, never mind Islamists. Nor is Islam flexible at all, it's the "final truth" which isn't to be altered or re-interpreted.

BTW this is why I believe Islam would have no trouble adapting to a transhumanist future with minimal shedding of adherents. It's basically a bunch of rules - IMO/IME the core of Islam is the fatwa*. I'm sure there will still be plenty of preachers willing to issue fatwas in the future.

Of course Christianity & Judaism would survive too, but I can see them, especially some forms of Christianity, shedding a larger proportion of followers in some crises of faith.

*My ex wife recounted with some delight how Tasleem, the Muslim secretary at her old job at a UK government quango, would seek fatwas on diet, garb etc from her - an atheist good ole girl from Knoxville Tenessee. Apparently one day when all the left-liberal types had put on hijab headscarves to show solidarity with Tasleem the oppressed Muslim, my ex had refused, despite pressure from the SJWs. This so impressed Tasleem with the obvious strength of my ex's moral convictions that Tasleem started turning to her for guidance...

Quote from: S'mon;1058553Of course Christianity & Judaism would survive too, but I can see them, especially some forms of Christianity, shedding a larger proportion of followers in some crises of faith.

Current demographics show Christian Church populations getting older, but not as small as they should be if they are just dying out.

There is some speculation that people flow back to the Church as they get older. If this is due to kids or their own mortality approaching, then you can expect a serious hit in faith activity just from that even if casual belief stays popular.

Christianity has various non-demanding denominations. People can believe 100% and not be very active or act differently.

Quote from: S'mon;1058553Of course Christianity & Judaism would survive too, but I can see them, especially some forms of Christianity, shedding a larger proportion of followers in some crises of faith.

A transhumanistic upload -might- be a "crisis of faith", but I figure as long as 1) people can die and 2) people don't know everything, they'll find some comfort in the idea of a higher power/afterlife/etc.  It might be amusing to have lots of folks who are ancient, but still waiting for Christ's return because they had faith before they were uploaded and still believe.  Meanwhile Christians and Muslims (unlike Jews) have a reason to convert people ("saving souls") which uploading wouldn't entirely replace; I can see Judaism dwindling until its adherents get desperate to preserve their faith beyond a (relative) few ancients, and start to actively seek converts/New Israels (in the plural)/etc.  Or not.  

And in the case of Eclipse Phase, you have a literal abandonment of Earth and near extinction level event (with continuing fears of extinction into the present setting).  Given there's -some- data to support the idea that people are more likely to convert to religion in the face of disaster/suffering, religion is likely pretty strong after the Fall.

I like EP a lot. I was at GenCon when it released and got one of the 1st books they sold.  I've played a handful of sessions and it runs better than it reads.  Setting silliness I can always cut out and around to get what I want so the religion thing isn't a huge deal.  

I was really interested in the 2nd edition they are working on as it looks to fix a few of the bigger flaws.  However, they don't want me and my friends as fans of their game.  Why?  Because 'politics' of course.  

The EP people made a very public virtue signal on their forums several years ago.  

QuoteWe believe we live in a world where patriarchy and male privilege are real, ongoing problems, and equality for all people, regardless of sex, is a worthy goal.

QuoteAs a group, we at Posthuman find the politics of MRAs to be toxic, offensive, and completely removed from reality.

QuoteHere's our stance: If you self-define as an MRA, please fire yourself as an Eclipse Phase fan. We don't want you. We want our forums to be open and inclusive, and we don't see the point of debating with you anymore. You have other places on the internet where you can wallow in the awfulness of your male privilege.

Sure, some MRA groups can be an issue, just like some feminist groups are toxic, but they aren't interested in distinctions.  So, because I want men, as well as women, to have their issues and rights addressed so we can reach that all elusive goal of equality I'm not welcome. Why would I stick around someplace I'm not welcome?  I didn't.

Quote from: rgalex;1058660I like EP a lot. I was at GenCon when it released and got one of the 1st books they sold.  I've played a handful of sessions and it runs better than it reads.  Setting silliness I can always cut out and around to get what I want so the religion thing isn't a huge deal.  

I was really interested in the 2nd edition they are working on as it looks to fix a few of the bigger flaws.  However, they don't want me and my friends as fans of their game.  Why?  Because 'politics' of course.  

The EP people made a very public virtue signal on their forums several years ago.  

Sure, some MRA groups can be an issue, just like some feminist groups are toxic, but they aren't interested in distinctions.  So, because I want men, as well as women, to have their issues and rights addressed so we can reach that all elusive goal of equality I'm not welcome. Why would I stick around someplace I'm not welcome?  I didn't.

See, I wasn't looking at it for the system. I was looking at it for ideas. I wanted to be an EP fan, but EP doesn't make sense. They broke immersion for politics. I'm less concerned with their politics than I am that it fills their work full of holes.

I wish they had more mature adults on staff.

"We believe we live in a world where murderers and murdering are real, ongoing problems, and safety for all people, regardless of sex, is a worthy goal.

As a group, we at Posthuman find the actions of murderers to be toxic, offensive, and completely removed from reality.

Here's our stance: If you self-define as an murderer, please fire yourself as an Eclipse Phase fan. We don't want you. We want our forums to be open and inclusive, and we don't see the point of debating with you anymore. You have other places on the internet where you can wallow in the awfulness of your murdering."

If your response to this was "duh, who likes those people", congrats!  You can spot virtue signaling.  If you find yourself asking "why would someone feel the need to state something so obvious", congrats!  You've just discovered the wonderful world of identity politics as expressed by the people who make your games.  

Ultimately, I find it cute that nobody is talking about how this is just a form of self-righteous marketing.  It's real easy to say "I'm against sexism" or "I'm against autocratic German political parties", and it's real easy to think "I'm supporting a good guy by buying this game I was going to pick up anyway."  But it's just a marketing gimmick*.  Of course, that way leads to paranoia and zealotry and meaninglessness; how do you know that other publisher is a "good guy" unless they too tell you their stance on extreme male sexism.  Meanwhile, all this in the hopes of making a few extra dollars.  And by few, I'm literally talking in the dozens range.  If you're lucky.  Because a good game is a good game, and good games transcend fears of supporting closeted pedophile authors and rapists, and can be forgiven any stupid excess (I'm looking at you Exalted).

(*there are also true-believers of course, but they're still marketing.)