Was OD&D simply marvelous, or was it a glorious mess?

Dracones · September 29, 2018, 03:36:38 PM

OD&D created some weird trends in how we think about fantasy in general. Thieves using daggers, mages using staves, clerics using blunt weapons, same with armor. Elric of Melniboné would probably have something to say to anyone who says magic users can't use real weapons.

thedungeondelver · September 29, 2018, 10:25:23 PM

Quote from: Franky;1058284If strictly by the 3 LBBS, How did the MU get the staff? For some odd reason they were not listed for sale along with other weapons or equipment. MU's were not *allowed* to use them anyway They could only arm themselves with daggers.

He asked me, "Can I buy a stout oaken staff?"

I said, sure.

Franky · September 30, 2018, 01:11:19 AM

And that is how it was done.

We figured the staff was 1 gp, like the 10' pole.

RPGPundit · October 02, 2018, 06:31:41 AM

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1058306Yes, but being diceless, it is incomplete. A roleplaying game without dice is like porn without the moneyshot: it can still be fun, but there's something missing.

Wrong. When it plays, it moves like lightning and is smooth as silk. It is the purest form of roleplaying.

estar · October 02, 2018, 11:39:56 AM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058328I would argue no, less so than Fate because it has no randomizing component, no real 'Game' to it. Can you still use it as a system to role play? Yes. But it's not a game. In MY opinion.

Chess

Bren · October 03, 2018, 10:35:15 AM

Quote from: estar;1058687Chess

I'd have said Diplomacy; it seems a closer match to Amber than Chess.

Christopher Brady · October 03, 2018, 09:42:13 PM

What do board games have to do with role playing games?

Oranges and apples.

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Bren · October 03, 2018, 10:01:08 PM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058876What do board games have to do with role playing games?

Oranges and apples.

You made the point that both are games. I'm sure there is a cute graphic to represent what you just did there, but I can't be arsed to find it.

Christopher Brady · October 03, 2018, 10:44:26 PM

Quote from: Bren;1058879You made the point that both are games. I'm sure there is a cute graphic to represent what you just did there, but I can't be arsed to find it.

OK, let's break down the difference here. Chess and Diplomacy require strategy and planning, there do not assume that there's a player that creates and adjudicates the setting and rules as needed, in fact the rules are set and must be memorized to play and only be used as written if you're playing the game. A role playing game is very random and requires no strategy beyond what you need to do put forth by a Dungeon/Game Master player. Two different things. The only thing in common is the word GAME.

estar · October 04, 2018, 12:51:03 AM

Quote from: Bren;1058799I'd have said Diplomacy; it seems a closer match to Amber than Chess.

I can live with that.

estar · October 04, 2018, 12:58:37 AM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058876What do board games have to do with role playing games?

Oranges and apples.

You made the assertion that without a randomizg element it not a game. RPGs use the rules of a game as tool to adjudicate the action. The existence of chess and diplomacy demonstrate one does not need a randomizing element for something to be a game. Therefore it reasonable that an RPG can be designed to use a game as a tool for adjudication that doesn't have a randomizing element. And we have several examples like Amber RPG.

Bren · October 04, 2018, 01:47:39 AM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058884OK, let's break down the difference here. Chess and Diplomacy require strategy and planning, there do not assume that there's a player that creates and adjudicates the setting and rules as needed, in fact the rules are set and must be memorized to play and only be used as written if you're playing the game. A role playing game is very random and requires no strategy beyond what you need to do put forth by a Dungeon/Game Master player. Two different things. The only thing in common is the word GAME.

As estar said, the point is that a randomizing element is not necessary for a game and thus, a randomizing element is not necessary for an RPG. Neither is a separate DM or GM, but that's a different discussion.

Rhedyn · October 04, 2018, 08:23:47 AM

This is stupid. Someone said "games need a randomizer". Someone else pointed out "chess".

Likewise RPGs do not need a randomizer to be a game.

Christopher Brady · October 06, 2018, 02:52:46 AM

Why are people combining board games with RPGs?

Is Amber a board game then?

Board games and RPGs are not the same. How is this so hard to understand? The rules are adjudicated differently, even.

estar · October 06, 2018, 08:35:57 AM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1059113Why are people combining board games with RPGs?

Is Amber a board game then?

Board games and RPGs are not the same. How is this so hard to understand? The rules are adjudicated differently, even.

You said games require a randomizing element. Not that RPGs require a randomzing element. And nobody claiming they are the same. And you ignored my point that traditional games are part of RPG just used as a tool to adjudicate the action. Notably the combat system of many RPGs can operate as a standalone wargame of individual combat. Much like SJ Games Melee.