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Was OD&D simply marvelous, or was it a glorious mess?

Started by Razor 007, September 27, 2018, 12:29:32 AM

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Razor 007

September 27, 2018, 12:29:32 AM Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 12:44:35 AM by Razor 007
I'm kind of on the fence...


Ok, I really love it; but let's talk about it anyway...
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Cave Bear

#1
September 27, 2018, 12:50:50 AM
It was a marvelous mess.

Kyle Aaron

#2
September 27, 2018, 12:56:04 AM
A mess, and yet it started it all for roleplaying games. Further proof of the fact that, in order of importance to the success of a game session, it goes,

1. people
2. snacks
3. setting
4. system

Seriously.
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estar

#3
September 27, 2018, 01:39:37 AM
Great RPG, presentation needed work but understandable given it was the first of its kind. Nailed it with the addition of the Greyhawk supplement.

S'mon

#4
September 27, 2018, 02:06:57 AM
The player side rules stuff looks pretty messy to me but the Underworld and Wilderness Adventures advice on running a game is amazing and still holds up very well. Gygax made a big mistake not including it or similar in the 1e DMG which lacks proper megadungeon campaign advice.

Chivalric

#5
September 27, 2018, 05:17:50 AM
Incredibly functional game with some presentation issues.

Rhedyn

#6
September 27, 2018, 07:13:28 AM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1058025A mess, and yet it started it all for roleplaying games. Further proof of the fact that, in order of importance to the success of a game session, it goes,

1. people
2. snacks
3. setting
4. system

Seriously.
I've seen the system mess up sessions when everything else remained constant.

spon

#7
September 27, 2018, 07:32:08 AM
Both, surely. Its glorious mess allowed for easy tweaking and houseruling, yet each part was fit for purpose (maybe not the surprise system?) which makes it marvellous!

RandyB

#8
September 27, 2018, 07:59:05 AM
Quote from: S'mon;1058032The player side rules stuff looks pretty messy to me but the Underworld and Wilderness Adventures advice on running a game is amazing and still holds up very well. Gygax made a big mistake not including it or similar in the 1e DMG which lacks proper megadungeon campaign advice.

I never noticed this before, but you're right. I consider the 1e DMG to be Gygax's magnum opus, but that is a curious omission.

Omega

#9
September 27, 2018, 08:02:06 AM
It is a pretty serviceable game really and gives the player and DM an immense amount of freedom within the system.

The main drawback is the disorganization of some of the rules.

B and BX are essentially cleaned and organized versions of OD&D. Holmes' B is probably the closest to a nearly straight up cleaned up and organized O.  BX adds more DM tools, makes races into classes and re-organizes stat bonuses among other things. But still cleaves more to O than A.

Pat

#10
September 27, 2018, 08:13:44 AM
Glorious mess. The presentation was a mess, it never explains how the rules are supposed to work together to create a specific experience, and important rules are missing. But it was a brand new mode of play and the rules were incredibly solid when used as they were supposed to be used. And even the omissions and scattered organization were a strength -- the very fact that it was maddeningly incomplete and at times quite opaque is what drove people to alter and expand the rules, leading to an incredibly flowering of creativity as they took the game and made it their own.

Melan

#11
September 27, 2018, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: NathanIW;1058043Incredibly functional game with some presentation issues.
Quite. Look at Empire of the Petal Throne, which is an OD&D-style game with a clear structure and more intuitive explanations (it shows the M.A.R. Barker had probably written a textbook or two before). The system is robust and even fairly elegant (much more than a lot of muddled D&D imitators). The OD&D booklets are still in the stage where they seem to be wrestling with this cool new concept, and how to get it across to people. It feels like someone who has seen something very cool, and trying to explain it to you while still juggling the details and all out of breath.
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EOTB

#12
September 27, 2018, 03:40:59 PM
It and its descendant AD&D have provided more recreational enjoyment from me than any other pastime I've taken up during my life.  It will always be great, to me.  From my perspective, the critiques entirely miss the mark even though pedantically accurate.
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jeff37923

#13
September 27, 2018, 03:41:46 PM
It was neither.

OD&D was a primordial soup from which all other RPGs evolved.
"Meh."

Rhedyn

#14
September 27, 2018, 04:53:53 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;1058086It was neither.

OD&D was a primordial soup from which all other RPGs evolved.
Even Fate?
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