Quote from: NathanIW;1057554He plays once a month for 3 hours and is never happy with his gaming.  There's always some new version or some other rules set that he thinks he could or should be running.  The only thing that he's actually getting enjoyment out of is thinking about how good things might be and when he buys a new product.

That's not limited to roleplaying games, that's just ordinary old consumerism.

It definitely is.  It's a perfect recipe for being the architect of one's own misery.

In the case of the perfect RPG, I think we can safely defer blowing up that bridge until we come to it.

The only perfect RPG will be the one you write for yourself. But even then, it will only be temporary. Enjoy it while you can!

I try to make every RPG of mine be good enough to only ever require 1 edition.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1057891I try to make every RPG of mine be good enough to only ever require 1 edition.

That's kinda my goal. At the same time there were several classes and species that I'd started out with that I ended up dropping into the 'stretch goals' then to 'put it in a supplement' because the amount of time it would take to fix them would greatly delay my primary product from getting out. Provided the game does well, those will definitely see the light of day in one of the 'world' books (more like 'here's a point of civilization and all the problems/adventure sites surrounding it' books, but world book is pithier), but they'd only be 2-3 pages out of a 100+ page book.

I could see in say, ten years, going back and doing an "ultimate edition" that adds all those options into the core book for those who want them all in one place. Its kinda funny and the opposite of what some might expect, but its my older players, the 40-50-somethings who like having all their books as PDFs. Every 20-30-something I've run games with has expressed a preference for physical books so them not having to lug around half a dozen books, some of which are only having a couple of pages referenced, would likely be an advantage they'd be willing to pay for.

The same goes for monsters; I've got just over 200 opponents in the core and plan on putting 1-2 dozen or so unique to each location in the supplements. In ten years that could easily be another 200 monsters and worth compiling into an "ultimate monsters" book.

But that's not a new edition in the D&D sense; that's just a reorganization of the existing content into something that puts things that people might be looking for all in one place. You don't NEED to buy them to play the game, but you might WANT to because its easier to flip through one book than a couple dozen (most of which are sandbox adventure site books).

The proliferation of rules systems has been the achilles heel of the hobby since at least the early 80's, and is now basically a mass mental illness.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1057908The proliferation of rules systems has been the achilles heel of the hobby since at least the early 80's, and is now basically a mass mental illness.

Yes, and we only ever needed the Model-T to drive around in and playing cards should only ever be used to play Solitaire. Its a mass mental illness if you want to drive something individual to you or play different games using the playing cards. [/sarcasm]

You seem to suggest that there exists one platonic ideal RPG system that can run all settings and genres equally well and is both simultaneously rules light with heavy crunch, creates simple characters yet provides tons of customization options. No such game exists and thinking one possibly could cover every such need borders on insanity of a different sort.

People want different things out of their games and if universal systems were the answer GURPS or HERO would be at the top of the market instead of small niche audiences.

Some people even want different things out of different games they play. I want Battletech to not feel like AD&D and neither of those to feel like FASERIP (i.e. 1980s Marvel Super Heroes RPG). Even in the giant robot genre sometimes I'm looking for Battletech's "anyone can die" combat system, other times I'm looking for the anime inspired feel of Mekton.

Sticking to one RPG system is like only reading hard sci-fi novels for entertainment... you could do it, but there's so much more you're missing out on.

Quote from: Chris24601;1057925...You seem to suggest that there exists one platonic ideal RPG system that can run all settings and genres equally well and is both simultaneously rules light with heavy crunch, creates simple characters yet provides tons of customization options...

I advocate such a thing is possible and I tend to prefer RPGs that seem to be striving for that rather than ones that think complexity vs comprehensiveness is a zero sum game.

And yeah, a Generic system like Savage Worlds is my preferred RPG. It's both general and specific. It's not the perfect RPG by far, but I think the devs are still trying which leads to some neat solutions and rules.

Quote from: Chris24601;1057925You seem to suggest that there exists one platonic ideal RPG system
[...]
Sticking to one RPG system is like [...]

It simply does not follow that pointing out there are too many rules means that the correct number to have is one.  That makes no sense.

I had a friend who thought Pendragon would be good for emulating Pokemon.
hte Knights would be pokemon, and the ladies, their trainers

Quote from: remial;1057954I had a friend who thought Pendragon would be good for emulating Pokemon.
hte Knights would be pokemon, and the ladies, their trainers

Your friend is right.

Quote from: NathanIW;1057935It simply does not follow that pointing out there are too many rules means that the correct number to have is one.  That makes no sense.

Whether he meant one or two dozen is irrelevant. His claim is that there are enough game systems already in existence that to try and build another one is to be insane.

My point was that people's tastes are too diverse for that statement to ever be true.

If there was a ruleset out there that actually delivered what I wanted for my fantasy games (and believe me, I've looked), I wouldn't have spent all this time writing my own system (4E D&D came close with its focus on transparent mechanics, tight monster math that made it easy for DMs to judge the difficulty of what they were throwing at the PCs, interesting martial characters with explicit mechanics and martial/caster parity, but it was also too weighed down by reliance on storygame elements, scaling issues and combat/non-combat options fighting for the same design space for me to be truly satisfied by it).

I think you're reading stuff into his statement that isn't there.  Maybe he'll elaborate.

The mechanics of a RPG encompasses a simulation of a given genre or setting. Since the only thing that can simulate the universe is the universe itself due to the butterfly effect anything smaller has to pick and choose what elements to emphasize. Especially a simulation designed to fit within the confines of a book or series of book.

The consequence of this is that there a huge variety in what could be designed to allow players to make characters that can interact with a setting with their actions adjudicated by a human referee. Even when narrowed to a specific genre for a specific setting.

So no there never will be too many RPGs. Nor there will ever be the perfect RPG in the sense of the OP. Rather the perfect RPG is one where the presentation, design of the mechanics, and included advice mesh in a way that it is entertaining, informative, useful, and follow through on what the author wants to focus on. There can be more than one perfect RPG existing at the same time.

Rob's Note: I use simulation not as a play style but rather in it's literal definition, a reproduction of the behavior of a system. The system being reproduced is whatever elements of a genre or setting the author want to focus on. Like combat, or social interaction.