The new WoTC survey runs on the assumption, and thus begs the conclusion, that D&D is just a "lifestyle brand".

[video=youtube_share;1Kn6PX6UEZU]https://youtu.be/1Kn6PX6UEZU[/youtube]

Yes. That is what WoTC wants it to be. More money in it.

I think you are reading way too much into the survey.

I can't blame them. Corporations chase the maximum dollars. Star Wars is a multi-generational lifestyle brand and Disney may have fucked up the cash fountain. If WotC can turn D&D into a true lifestyle brand, then the dollar flow would increase dramatically. However, the problem is D&D has nothing to copyright. Star Wars had enough "unique" bits different from generic science fiction or even other space operas.

By your definition, Star Wars is a lifestyle brand. Doesn't mean that there can't be lots of excellent games and gaming.

Why is not being a one-trick-pony a bad thing?

Quote from: Motorskills;1057577By your definition, Star Wars is a lifestyle brand. Doesn't mean that there can't be lots of excellent games and gaming.

I think the whole thing gets watered down as it starts trying to broaden its appeal which sanitizes the original concept. Starwars has never recovered (to the old glory days at least) because its been trying to tick too many boxes.

Quote from: The Exploited.;1057589I think the whole thing gets watered down as it starts trying to broaden its appeal which sanitizes the original concept. Starwars has never recovered (to the old glory days at least) because its been trying to tick too many boxes.

Star Wars hasn't recovered because there isn't much there. We have threee great movies that people love and a bunch of shit people buy because they love those three movies.

Quote from: Lurtch;1057590Star Wars hasn't recovered because there isn't much there. We have threee great movies that people love and a bunch of shit people buy because they love those three movies.

Correction: there's a huge body of materials (RPGs, games, comics, novels, 7 other movies at the moment, cartoons, TV specials, toys, alternate versions of movies, etc. etc. etc. etc.) that people are of conflicting opinion on.  But even if all of that expanded universe were universally agreed upon as utter shit, its existence only has as much relevance as people let it.    

I mean Pundit's point is WotC essentially wants to sell D&D underwear, but whether they do or not means fuck all for my actual play.  So let WotC do what they will with the brand.  Maybe it'll be something like the official AD&D woodburner that people will only buy to be "ironic".  Or maybe it'll be like some of the better spin off D&D games currently out there (e.g. Lords of Waterdeep).  Regardless, it won't impact my table.

Some folks seem to confuse random fan love/hate with good business. Disney didn't write Lucas a check for just the "original" movies. They were buying a brand.

Depends what you think or understand of 'Lifestyle Brands'.

In real terms the dictionary definition of a Lifestyle Brand doesn't really exist. There is no brand which has a defined set of values people can actually live their lives by. There is simply the aspiration of the perception of such an ideal.

I'm of the school of thought that the market defines a 'Lifestyle Brand' not the other way around.

While designers, brand experts and marketeers can attempt to position a brand as a 'Lifestyle Brand', it has to be embraced by the market as one before any of that positioning could ever work. Most so called 'Lifestyle Brands' became one despite any positioning by the brands owners not due to it.  The market embraced that brand and made it one, it had little to nothing to do with the positioning the brand took prior to it.

Why does a market embrace a brand in that way? Almost always due to it entering cultural consciousness via other avenues over a period of time. Essentially the market assigns a set of values that they associate with that brand they aspire to live by. Those values are mostly outside of that brand owners control.

You cannot create a demand by building a product/brand. You build a product/brand to fulfil a demand, even if you were not aware of it existing before the fact.

No company can automagically create the market for the 'Lifestyle Brand' to exist, that hole into which that peg fits has to already exist, even if you couldn't see it beforehand. Sometimes it takes time for the right conditions to come fruition as has been the case with D&D, and sometimes a company can attempt to push things in that direction. However I think the forces that make the conditions come about are pretty much beyond marketing/branding to influence that well, the forces are predominately cultural and to a degree chaotically emergent.

Brands which try to position themselves as Lifestyle brand when there is no existing market for it tend to fail and history is littered with the attempts.

With D&D I think that ship has pretty much sailed already. Whether we like it or not I think it's on it's way to being a 'Lifestyle Brand'. WOTC did little or nothing to precipitate that. The changes that occurred for D&D to enter the mainstream and be embraced in such a way as to be considered a Lifestyle Brand were way to big for WOTC to engineer themselves.

The fact they are now in a position to start reaping the rewards of that process is neither here nor there.

I guess what I'm saying is, positioning themselves as a 'Lifestyle Brand' in 1970s/80s or even 90s would have been utterly absurd. The fact you can do a video about WOTC positioning themselves as 'Lifestyle Brand' as a serious critique today pretty much states that ship is already beginning to sail, and I think WOTC had little to nothing to do with that.

It's the market perception that has changed not D&D as a brand as such...

Quote from: Motorskills;1057577By your definition, Star Wars is a lifestyle brand. Doesn't mean that there can't be lots of excellent games and gaming.

Star Wars has increasingly stopped being excellent movies and viewing since about either just before or right after Force Awakens. I liked Force Awakens but its got hints of agenda. Not enough to totally kill it for me but its there. After that though they went nuts and may have killed the franchise. Or at least put a serious dent in it even the prequels didnt achieve.

The more someones agenda and politics creeps into a product oft the worse it is as a product.

As for sideline non-gaming items. Depends on how off the rails they go. Or more aptly. How badly or not they execute something. A D&D branded mug is ok. A D&D Mug with bad art on it is not.

Quote from: It was all a mistake;1057628While designers, brand experts and marketeers can attempt to position a brand as a 'Lifestyle Brand', it has to be embraced by the market as one before any of that positioning could ever work. Most so called 'Lifestyle Brands' became one despite any positioning by the brands owners not due to it.  The market embraced that brand and made it one, it had little to nothing to do with the positioning the brand took prior to it.

Agreed.

NFL and FIFA are lifestyle brands, but neither the NFL nor FIFA made that happen. It was the fan love for the sports and the NFL and FIFA just didn't fuck up enough to drown the fandom's energy (even though both jackass orgs do their best).

Star Wars, Dr. Who, Star Trek and D&D are in a similar space as they are now multi-generational fandoms. AKA, whoever owns the property now gets to collect the lifestyle dollars that were built up by the long ago work of the founders and early years of their marketing.

People make fun of the Insane Clown Posse, but they've got a lifestyle brand most musicians would kill for.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggalo

Quote from: Omega;1057629Star Wars has increasingly stopped being excellent movies and viewing since about either just before or right after Force Awakens.

Because they were putting out excellent movies with the prequels!? lol

Quote from: Omega;1057569I think you are reading way too much into everything which you think might get you hits.

Corrected it for Pundit