Quote from: Azraele;1057444I play OSR games because they're better, better, better, better, better, better

Everything linked is something I vouch for; I own it, I've used it at the table, and it's of universally higher quality and utility [...]

I totally agree.  Yoon Suin has been so useful for my strange land type weird fantasy game.  I got the Blue Medusa PDF and have used pieces of it but never ran it straight.  I use the tables in Vornheim every game session and have for years now.

I think I have enough OSR material for the rest of my days even if I ran twice as many games as I do.

If WotC and Paizo continue to try to turn game publishing into a form of activism, they can just be ignored.  And as well, they'll probably create a wider pool of potential players and GMs for games that are about gaming first and only.

This would have no effect on me at all. Most RPG companies seem to fail to communicate what value they are adding in a new version. Since the previous version I like isn't 'broken' and is still playable, I need more justification of a new version other than the company reaching market saturation (based on whatever they have reached and decided to give up) and so now needing a new version.

If both companies disappeared tomorrow, it wouldn't change much. There are so many interesting new games and OSR variants out there that I have few worries about RPGs disappearing as a result. Some of the content IP for D&D Id miss, but I can't say that Golorion or Pathfinder for that matter has much that was original to begin with. But then, I have a ton of the D&D stuff already - and how many versions of mostly similar material (like re-released modules) do you really need if you already have one or two?

Quote from: Razor 007;1057376How will that impact your purchasing decisions, and your gaming choices?

(I ran out of character space in the thread title.)

I've allready stopped buying Paizo material and if WOTC started really pushing the agenda with 5e then I'd stop supporting that too. Though would depend greatly on the level of the problem. WOTC is all the hell over the place right now with how they are acting so its hard to pin down if some of these weird stunts are company wide, or just a factions agenda. and the ever growing problem of trying to sort out what is actual agenda from "neat idea I want to put in a book!".

That and the problem of sorting out personal vs company. Mearl's infamous "You are fired from D&D!" statement being a prime example.

Quote from: S'mon;1057457OSR material does tend to be of higher quality IME than most other offerings; I'm not really sure exactly why that is.

In my experience, it can be one or more of several things.

It might be the willingness to take risks with the game system and/or genre: e.g. DCC, LotFP, Black Pudding, Lion & Dragon, Wormskin,
It might be the well concise, comprehensive and cohesive rules: Fantastic Heroes & Witchery, ACKS, S&W, Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy, LFG
It might be the great value for money or the plethora of gaming material or the inventiveness of the settings and adventures.

In BtW I like the fact that there is a real focus on the players as the protagonists, not NPCs, and that the GM is the author of his campaign, not some celebrity author.

Actually, now you mention it, there's a whole host of reasons why OSR is better and nostaligia doesn't play such an important role

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057473Actually, now you mention it, there's a whole host of reasons why OSR is better and nostaligia doesn't play such an important role

Many authors seem to really pour their hearts into OSR and produce amazing gems. Something about the OD&D or BX D&D base seems to be very inspirational.

Seeing as I'm part of the AL, I'd be fucked sideways from Sunday.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1057475Seeing as I'm part of the AL, I'd be fucked sideways from Sunday.

That's just a form of enthusiastic inclusiveness, now you're getting it!

Quote from: S'mon;1057474Many authors seem to really pour their hearts into OSR and produce amazing gems. Something about the OD&D or BX D&D base seems to be very inspirational.

Agreed. This Summer I got my hands on Midderlands and Midderlands Expanded and everythig from the artwork to the binding yelled "Labour of Love".

Fantastic Heroes and Witchery is probably the best example of a labour of love, imho. I bought a second copy just to give it more support and to know that I have a spare copy.

1. IMO, they already have, whether their gaming products fully express it yet or not.
2. No effect on me. I've never bought any Pathfinder or Starfinder, and I've only bought the D&D Starter Set and Players Handbook for 5e. My gaming dollars, relatively few as they are, have been going elsewhere and will continue to do so.

One issue I see is that this type of activism affects hiring choices, which means poorer quality material in the long run. While OSR tends to be the craft beer of RPGs, Pathfinder/5E as the Bud Light tends to be a larger intro for people into the hobby. I think the biggest impact to me if those companies eat their own tail would be a breakup of things like the adventure league and pathfinder/starfinder societies. Having those go away would probably mean every event at your local hobby store is MTG, another card game, minis, and board gaming which would make that environment less of a social hub for rpgs.

I'm not sure if any other company would be in a position to pick up that slack. Maybe FFG, but I'm not sure if Star Wars RPG day at the local gaming store type of event promotion is on their radar.

No effect at all since I'm not interested in either.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1057423(...) Even if Paizo wasn't political at all, if they delivered their full catalog to me tomorrow, free, I'd unload the stuff straight from their truck to the garbage can.   I have negative interest in anything PF (or 3E/3.5 related, for that matter).  "Zero interest" would radically understate the situation.

This. I've never seen the appeal of Pathf%#&er and Starf%#&er.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057473In my experience, it can be one or more of several things.

It might be the willingness to take risks with the game system and/or genre: e.g. DCC, LotFP, Black Pudding, Lion & Dragon, Wormskin,
It might be the well concise, comprehensive and cohesive rules: Fantastic Heroes & Witchery, ACKS, S&W, Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy, LFG
It might be the great value for money or the plethora of gaming material or the inventiveness of the settings and adventures.

In BtW I like the fact that there is a real focus on the players as the protagonists, not NPCs, and that the GM is the author of his campaign, not some celebrity author.

Actually, now you mention it, there's a whole host of reasons why OSR is better and nostaligia doesn't play such an important role

And this. The only "D&D" products I own or am interested in picking up are OSR/retroclone books.

I've played core D&D 5E exactly once and enjoyed it well enough, but it didn't wow me into wanting to own any of the books myself, let alone run it. That was the only D&D experience I ever had.

Quote from: Dracones;1057506...

I'm not sure if any other company would be in a position to pick up that slack. ...

That is largely the issue. Why do we need a company to run games at your FLGS? OSR games are gems. More people should just bring them to their FLGS and run them. Get the owners to stock them. The hobby at this juncture of easy desktop publishing and digital distribution systems and quality POD doesn't need big corporate D&D any longer.

Quote from: Lynn;1057464This would have no effect on me at all. Most RPG companies seem to fail to communicate what value they are adding in a new version. Since the previous version I like isn't 'broken' and is still playable, I need more justification of a new version other than the company reaching market saturation (based on whatever they have reached and decided to give up) and so now needing a new version.

If both companies disappeared tomorrow, it wouldn't change much. There are so many interesting new games and OSR variants out there that I have few worries about RPGs disappearing as a result. Some of the content IP for D&D Id miss, but I can't say that Golorion or Pathfinder for that matter has much that was original to begin with. But then, I have a ton of the D&D stuff already - and how many versions of mostly similar material (like re-released modules) do you really need if you already have one or two?

Quote from: trechriron;1057532That is largely the issue. Why do we need a company to run games at your FLGS? OSR games are gems. More people should just bring them to their FLGS and run them. Get the owners to stock them. The hobby at this juncture of easy desktop publishing and digital distribution systems and quality POD doesn't need big corporate D&D any longer.

Yes, it does. You can kiss goodnight to the hugely increased player base we got from D&D 5th (big parallel with 3e there) and the associated products that have spawned from it. That includes the oft-maligned series of actual play vids (the biggest being Critical Role, of course), which regardless of how you feel, has got even more people playing it than the books and marketing itself ever could by itself. The only other series that could ever claim to bring in people like that was World of Darkness in the 90s.

The rest of the hobby doesn't make shit and doesn't bring in shit. This has been true since the 90s -- even into the 80s -- and it's even truer today after the catastrophic fallout from the 00s. Hasbro doesn't make any real money of the brand -- and just think, if they don't, the rest of the hobby sure as shit don't.

Now this is not directed at you trechriron and lynn but the gaming populace in general: never ever be so arrogant as to think this hobby isn't built on and fundamentally supported by D&D. Digital publishing is just one more avenue of distribution and its highly convenient which is why its done so well - but without product (and well-known product) these sites and the rest of the hobby dies.

You can play in your gamer dungeons all you want and ignore the rest of the hobby -- and while you do, it will collapse and we'll be the last set of generations to enjoy it. That is the stark truth.

I made my own D&D game last year that does everything I want, so as plenty of others have said not in the slightest (though truth be told their decisions haven't affected my gaming for quite a few years).

I moved away from PF many years ago.

5E?  I still run and play that and like it for the most part.
I don't really care what WotC 's politics are, as long as it doesn't affect the product.  
If it does, well, I'll still use what I already have until I get bored of it, but wouldn't buy any material I found objectionable.

I don't really follow politics relating to RPGs and that's deliberate.  I just don't want to know really.