As well, the more D&D has become a lifestyle brand, the less risk they have taken with any of the gaming material.  It's already a safe, texture-less luke warm pablum version of kitchen sink fantasy.

Quote from: KingCheops;1057307Your example is no good.

Let's modify it a little bit.  Nintendo makes accessories for the Nintendo Switch.  For instance I bought a Legend of Zelda carrying case for my Switch because well fuck yeah.  How many Zelda fans are buying these carry cases without buying both the console and the game?  The console maybe loses money but they get a couple of sales out of it (game, carry case).  Are there lots of people who purchase console branded gear without actually owning/playing the console?

How many people who buy a D&D mug are going to buy the PHB?  Mugs are useful in and of themselves.  What's the tipping point where people who don't play the TTRPG become more important as customers than those who do play the TTRPG?  This survey assumed you DIDN'T currently play the game and was gauging interest in NON-GAME related products.  This is a test of whether the brand is more important than the game.  LOTS of people are being exposed to D&D without being exposed to playing the TTRPG.

PS:  I have considered using my carrying case to hold SD cards in addition to my Switch games so it would have value outside of console gaming.  I also own a Zelda mug.  But I likely wouldn't have purchased either if I wasn't a fan of playing the games since childhood.

I guess it depends upon whether you think that the D&D as a marketable brand could survive D&D itself being gone and/or really bad. I don't think so. I know that I see a lot more D&D peripherals now than in the time of 4e, so it certainly appears (albeit anecdotally) that the success of 5e as a game has pushed forward D&D more successfully as a brand in general.

Your logic is based upon the idea that a lack of actual D&D books of solid quality would have no impact upon the sales of random D&D branded merchandise (mugs etc.) - or at least that WoTC doesn't see a connection. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that point.

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1057356Your logic is based upon the idea that a lack of actual D&D books of solid quality would have no impact upon the sales of random D&D branded merchandise (mugs etc.) - or at least that WoTC doesn't see a connection. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that point.

Lived experience with Games Workshop taking this viewpoint is what has me worried.  But yeah I can accept your viewpoint as well.

Quote from: happyhermit;1057241This is getting ridiculous, what's next a D&D woodburning set?

er... that was a real thing...

Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;1057282This.

If anything - they would become LESS worried about the actual 5e books being profitable, as simply maintaining the brand could be profitable via said mugs/t-shirts/dental floss.

If they can make good $ with the peripherals, so long as the books themselves break even they'll keep them going.

Or they might decide the periperals sell more than the core product and shift focus. TSR did that somewhat with their book craze to the point they bought and ran for years Amazing Stories.

Quote from: Omega;1057468er... that was a real thing...

Huh.

Quote from: KingCheops;1057446Lived experience with Games Workshop taking this viewpoint is what has me worried.  But yeah I can accept your viewpoint as well.

I don't think that WoTC could pull that off. Games Workshop has been able to leverage their cool world - which was always the selling point of their game anyway. In D&D's case, it's pretty generic kitchen sink fantasy (albeit - partially because D&D helped to invent modern kitchen sink fantasy).

But - I can certainly concede that WoTC might try to give it a go based upon the Games Workshop example.

Quote from: Omega;1057468er... that was a real thing...

(I'm pretty sure that was happyhermit's point)

Not everyone is Drax the Destroyer so apparently it did in fact go over their head.

Quote from: RandyB;1056830DuckDuckGo "CalArts" and you'll find the source of that abominable style.

Oh, you mean the same source that trained the creator oaf Aeon Flux?

[video=youtube;E7eeaL6J3dE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7eeaL6J3dE&list=PLaD16z1FQGeIKdE_CI8L66Ng3OesR_swJ&index=45[/youtube]

Tastes vary; styles vary. I for one like the art of Steven Universe; but I can like a soft-edged friendly show like that and still love the bleeding-edge mindfuckery which is Aeon Flux. It's crazy how the same person can like lots of different things for different reasons. It's almost like people are complex and multifaceted or something

Quote from: happyhermit;1057511Huh.

You should take a bow for that one.

It's called Calarts, but it's not.  It's a lazy form of Flash style animation.  It doesn't require much actual work, it's about 5 frames for speaking which you can swap and loop.

Lifestyle brands make lots of money via licensing. WotC doesn't need to make woodburning kits, they just have to sell the license to anyone willing to pony up the cash. AKA, why you see Star Wars stuff in 99 cent stores.

I don't have a problem with WotC maximizing their profits, but I would prefer if their company imploded instead.

Quote from: NathanIW;1057333As well, the more D&D has become a lifestyle brand, the less risk they have taken with any of the gaming material.  It's already a safe, texture-less luke warm pablum version of kitchen sink fantasy.

4e taught WotC to not try anything new. Sacred cows are sacred. 5e is an extruded sausage ground from 1e to 4e stripped of flavor because soft serve is what the core market wants and WotC is not going to deviate again. The move to lifestyle brand is their plan to keep the current edition "evergreen" by selling the same books, albeit with refreshed art to the next gen.  It will be the Chaosium school of "editions".

But to be fair, flavorful settings don't depend on rulesets. I'm no fan of 5e, but I don't see why you couldn't their rules in a kickass setting.

Quote from: Spinachcat;10576544e taught WotC to not try anything new. Sacred cows are sacred. 5e is an extruded sausage ground from 1e to 4e stripped of flavor because soft serve is what the core market wants and WotC is not going to deviate again. The move to lifestyle brand is their plan to keep the current edition "evergreen" by selling the same books, albeit with refreshed art to the next gen.  It will be the Chaosium school of "editions".

But to be fair, flavorful settings don't depend on rulesets. I'm no fan of 5e, but I don't see why you couldn't their rules in a kickass setting.

Absolutely you can use the rules for a kick ass setting.  I agree that rules and setting can be separate but they can also be linked.  I think with D&D they are.  Sometimes it's explicit like with Greyhawk at times.  Other times it's just an implied setting of all the various types of characters, rules for handing money, skills, towns, etc., the monsters one expects to find in the world and where they might be and so on.  At this point "D&D fantasy" has become sort of a combination of being self referential and a bland incorporation of generic fantasy ideas from the larger quasi-mainstream genre market.  They've even finally decided they can combine D&D with Magic the Gathering in a more explicit way.

I think the bland extruded sausage analogy is pretty apt.