Maybe I'm a crazy person, but when I see a question asked about Fate I usually see a ton of different rules interpretations. Also, those interpretations seem to change over time.

I would say that before this week, explanations of Aspect Invocation mostly occurred before the roll - players would pile them up so that their success would be inevitable.

Starting this week, both here and on RPG.net, I've seen the opposite - the explanation now is that you do most of your aspect invocation (driven by Fate point or permission) after the roll in a game of chicken w/ the GM.

The answer depends on why you choose to use FATE in the first place.

I have literally always used aspect invocation after the roll.

The book literally talks about using aspect invocations after the roll, and they talk about "the ellipsis trick" as a tool towards that.  The examples in the book involve invoking after a roll.

To my understanding and knowledge, this has been standard for literally years.

https://fate-srd.com/fate-core/invoking-compelling-aspects

Quote from: robiswrong;1055228I have literally always used aspect invocation after the roll.

The book literally talks about using aspect invocations after the roll, and they talk about "the ellipsis trick" as a tool towards that.  The examples in the book involve invoking after a roll.

To my understanding and knowledge, this has been standard for literally years.

https://fate-srd.com/fate-core/invoking-compelling-aspects

Figuratively speaking, you used the term "literally" a bajillion more times than strictly necessary. Literally speaking, I did appreciate that you used it to literally mean literally. A lot of times, I see "literally" used to mean "figuratively". That drives me figuratively insane with literal frustration.

Quote from: PencilBoy99;1055211Maybe I'm a crazy person, but when I see a question asked about Fate I usually see a ton of different rules interpretations. Also, those interpretations seem to change over time.

I would say that before this week, explanations of Aspect Invocation mostly occurred before the roll - players would pile them up so that their success would be inevitable.

Starting this week, both here and on RPG.net, I've seen the opposite - the explanation now is that you do most of your aspect invocation (driven by Fate point or permission) after the roll in a game of chicken w/ the GM.

I'd say that you can do either:).
In fact, I tend to do both, stating it honestly that I'm not attacking with my Fight+3, but with my Chi+4 due to a stunt, and that's actually a +8 because I'm invoking two advantages. So lots of suffering is heading the NPC's way.
And I'm still keeping Fate points or additional invocations in store, in case the dice give me a -3 or worse, when re-rolling actually makes sense, because obviously that's something I can only declare after the roll;).

Quote from: Azraele;1055230Figuratively speaking, you used the term "literally" a bajillion more times than strictly necessary. Literally speaking, I did appreciate that you used it to literally mean literally. A lot of times, I see "literally" used to mean "figuratively". That drives me figuratively insane with literal frustration.

It was for emphasis, to show the amount of evidence against the idea that invoking before the roll is normal or that invoking after the roll is a new thing.  There's basically nothing that supports that invoking before is the "normal" and certainly not the only thing, though in some cases (you're doing something that would negate the aspect), you would go ahead and invoke before the action anyway.

Quote from: robiswrong;1055236It was for emphasis, to show the amount of evidence against the idea that invoking before the roll is normal or that invoking after the roll is a new thing.  There's basically nothing that supports that invoking before is the "normal" and certainly not the only thing, though in some cases (you're doing something that would negate the aspect), you would go ahead and invoke before the action anyway.

Yes, but you still used it for emphasis correctly. That's rare and wonderful.

I seriously thought it was always after roll. I'll grant I haven't played much Fate (it just isn't my bag). I do own the Fate core book, though. I tried, promise.

Quote from: Azraele;1055241Yes, but you still used it for emphasis correctly. That's rare and wonderful.

Awww, you made my heart a-flutter!  The literally/figuratively thing is a bit of a pet peeve of mine as well

Quote from: Azraele;1055241I seriously thought it was always after roll. I'll grant I haven't played much Fate (it just isn't my bag). I do own the Fate core book, though. I tried, promise.

It's generally after the roll.  The only time I've ever invoked before the roll is if the action that the roll was resolving would have done something to make the aspect go away anyway... like if you're hiding in the bushes and have a "Hidden in the Bushes" aspect, and are attacking, you may as well invoke that because you're probably not hidden in the bushes afterwards.

Maybe if the game is was good, or perhaps comprehensible, it would be more like playing a game and less like a philosophical debate?

FATE is a shitstorm of shitty game design. It's too complicated, too meta-gamey, and way to fucking wacky to serve any purpose except to twist your pucker-hole into a knot.

Just dump your FATE shit and go play a game that doesn't require these mental gymnastics.

Quote from: trechriron;1055262Maybe if the game is was good, or perhaps comprehensible, it would be more like playing a game and less like a philosophical debate?

FATE is a shitstorm of shitty game design. It's too complicated, too meta-gamey, and way to fucking wacky to serve any purpose except to twist your pucker-hole into a knot.

Just dump your FATE shit and go play a game that doesn't require these mental gymnastics.

It doesn't really require gymnastics.  It just runs very differently than traditional games, and that causes a lot of learning curve issues.  I mean, it did for me.  But once you've figured out, it's pretty damn slick and straightforward.

I mean, you can certainly level criticisms at it, specifically that it doesn't do a very good job of getting people over that hump.

Quote from: trechriron;1055262Maybe if the game is was good, or perhaps comprehensible, it would be more like playing a game and less like a philosophical debate?

FATE is a shitstorm of shitty game design. It's too complicated, too meta-gamey, and way to fucking wacky to serve any purpose except to twist your pucker-hole into a knot.

Just dump your FATE shit and go play a game that doesn't require these mental gymnastics.

Y U No Fit In My Forum Sig? :mad:

Quote from: robiswrong;1055265It doesn't really require gymnastics.  It just runs very differently than traditional games, and that causes a lot of learning curve issues.  I mean, it did for me.  But once you've figured out, it's pretty damn slick and straightforward.

I mean, you can certainly level criticisms at it, specifically that it doesn't do a very good job of getting people over that hump.

I believe everyone has their game. If you enjoy it, awesome. I personally find FATE to suck the life out of me. However, as are all the posts I make everywhere, these are just my opinions. Fun is the goal. POKING FUN is just a side-benefit.

I guess it was my imagination. apologies

Quote from: PencilBoy99;1055297I guess it was my imagination. apologies

Yes and no. The point you specifically brought up is one that I've never seen, but there are certainly other parts of the system that have varied widely between different games since I've been following it. A good example is how weapons are handled. When I first played a Fate game with Dresden Files, weapons had different damage ratings because, all other factors being equal, being shot by a large-caliber rifle is worse than taking a bullet from a holdout pistol. Fast forward to the newer stuff and people like to hand-wave guns and other equipment in general, saying it's just there to give you an excuse to use your skills. This hurts my brain and is one of several reasons why I refuse to touch Fate Core and its offshoot games.

Quote from: Brand55;1055306Yes and no. The point you specifically brought up is one that I've never seen, but there are certainly other parts of the system that have varied widely between different games since I've been following it. A good example is how weapons are handled. When I first played a Fate game with Dresden Files, weapons had different damage ratings because, all other factors being equal, being shot by a large-caliber rifle is worse than taking a bullet from a holdout pistol. Fast forward to the newer stuff and people like to hand-wave guns and other equipment in general, saying it's just there to give you an excuse to use your skills. This hurts my brain and is one of several reasons why I refuse to touch Fate Core and its offshoot games.

My only experience was with Fate core, and like you I left frustrated. Conceptually I loved being able to build characters that fit a player's expectations and desires like a glove. In practice, though? It was "I always have an appropriate bonus when I want, and my flaws are low-impact" which is... I mean, that's red mage

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