Quote from: Zalman;1054539Let's not get silly by implying that they were in handcuffs for 11 hours. They were handcuffed, then then taken to a cell. Cops don't leave people in cuffs inside a cell.

I was being terse, in my previous posts I stated some of the fact enough to establish that I am aware of what been reported including the fact they were only handcuffed to and from the cells.

Quote from: Zalman;1054539They were "without beds" for 11 hours. Whether or not you think that qualifies as "brutal deprivation" I'll leave to each to decide for themselves.

I disagreed the with the assertion that being handcuffed while being taken to and from a ICE Detention Center and confined in a cell for 11 hours is the equivalent of having to stay in a airport lounge 11 hours Both are uncomfortable and annoying however the former i.e ICE detention Center, is a more serious situation than sitting around airport lounge waiting for a flight.

One time when I went to China, there was a problem with my paperwork and I was detained for 7 hours (after a 26 hour flight/connections). Much like with WotC, the company which hired me screwed up.

I'm not prone to hating on WotC, but yeah, this is their mess, they screwed up, and that's really all this is, politics is irrelevant to this particular matter.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1054537So do you think that Brutal Deprivation is an accurate description of being handcuffed and detained?

TDS is real.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1054432Not going to comment further as I don't want to make the issue I was complaining about worse. But you are putting words in my mouth.

Ahh, the irony. Complains about someone "putting words in my mouth" after first posting in this thread with, "Very sad to see the anti-immigrant/anti illegal alien sentiment now comes across in main forum threads."

I am looking for a violin to play for you.

Deprivation is bullshit.  Physically they were better off than someone laid over at the airport.

There is a legitimate case for mental anguish.  Being led out of the airport (no mention if it was in front of other travellers) in handcuffs and detained in a cell.  I would be pretty scared and in a state of panic if in the same situation.  Call me soft or a soy boy if you will but that's a legit scary situation.

In terms of how they got caught it was again probably a case of:

"Why are you here?"
"We have a business meeting at WotC."
"Are you getting paid to be here?"
"Yes."
"Okay you're here on a tourist visa which doesn't let you get paid for business meetings which means you are under arrest."

Quote from: estar;1054549I was being terse,

Indeed.

QuoteI disagreed the with the assertion that being handcuffed while being taken to and from a ICE Detention Center and confined in a cell for 11 hours is the equivalent of having to stay in a airport lounge 11 hours Both are uncomfortable and annoying however the former i.e ICE detention Center, is a more serious situation than sitting around airport lounge waiting for a flight.

Yes, the difference is that the artists in question were being investigated for a  possible ESTA Visa waiver violation. It's not the exact equivalent, but the 11 hour stay and lack of beds are not a condition of brutal deprivation. But then, I was being terse.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1054548Fair enough. I was comparing the length of the detainment and the lack of beds to the common scenario that delayed flights create. Of course the hypothetical airline commuters are not handcuffed or restricted from leaving because they are not being investigated for possible ESTA Visa waiver violation.

And I certainly do not consider any of these scenarios "Brutal deprivation".

In my experience people don't respond well to being handcuffed and taken to a cell. Along with being subjected to a lengthy interrogation and being derived of their possessions and means of communication given the nature of the inciting incident which is a currently appears to be a paperwork problem.

Never fuck with visas. As a child growing up overseas FIRST thing I was taught: your country's constitution does not travel with you, your country can't (or won't) protect you now; mind your 'p's and 'q's. Never lie, cheat, or fart outside command while in customs.

And I know what it's like ending up in a 12 hour layover in Jordan during Ramadan at day, as a child. Locked in, none but emergency lights, no AC, all shops closed, water fountains and sinks turned off. Dad had to walk the length of the airport for hours to find one lone janitor who was kind enough to provide a small paper cup of water for thirsty little me. One cup, too, lest he be in trouble. We slept on the side of one of the airport planters/public seats in the shaded half-light, thirsty. And this was one of the better countries airports I've been in...

Heard horror stories of Korean ancestry men who were immediately detained and shuffled off to boot camp because they are considered citizens by blood, and were shirking their duty by not registering for mandatory 2 year service. Does not matter if they were citizens of another country, never born there, and only attending for grandma's funeral -- stop being a deserter and get into the military. Only way to avoid it was to renounce citizenship before entry, customs and visa. Bring your 17 yr old Korean ancestry son born from Argentina and forgot to have him renounce Korean citizenship? Fuck you, he is considered one year older (you are born as 1 year old, so your age is one older) and thus eligible for service, thanks for bringing him in, he will miss his grandma's funeral. Too bad, no you don't get to see him. Please don't overstay your 90 day tourist visa. Goodbye.

No. Never fuck around with visas and customs. Not even once. There are far greater hells than most comfortable Westerners can imagine... :eek:

Quote from: Opaopajr;1054562No. Never fuck around with visas and customs. Not even once. There are far greater hells than most comfortable Westerners can imagine... :eek:

I can only imagine, but I certainly don't take my situation here in America for granted.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1054564I can only imagine, but I certainly don't take my situation here in America for granted.

And those examples are from the more lawful, peaceable, and ordered countries... The veneer of civilization is THIN. :eek: It can and does get much, much worse.

Quote from: sureshot;1054516Yes because this place is worse than ever. Go to rpg.net why don't you. Where they was serious talk of bann2ong users who were pro-republican. Let me guess though it's ok though because your a dan of that forum.  Even more how dare posters have a mind of their iwn and not ne mondless sheep who follow the rest of the herd.

I like making fun of rpg.net as much as the next person, but at the moment their tabletop open forum is a lot better than this one. This place has had multiple political threads going on the first page for months now, whereas you can visit rpg.net Open without encountering anything like that. They'll ban you if you call someone an asshole (by the way: you are an asshole!). And I'm sure you can find febrile political threads in some sub forum or another. But this place has let the infection spread throughout the host's body, and is now almost overrun. It's as shame, because it was a pretty cool place a couple of years ago. No more.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1054571I like making fun of rpg.net as much as the next person, but at the moment their tabletop open forum is a lot better than this one. This place has had multiple political threads going on the first page for months now, whereas you can visit rpg.net Open without encountering anything like that. They'll ban you if you call someone an asshole (by the way: you are an asshole!). And I'm sure you can find febrile political threads in some sub forum or another. But this place has let the infection spread throughout the host's body, and is now almost overrun. It's as shame, because it was a pretty cool place a couple of years ago. No more.

Yeah, it's not like theRPGSite had a "Fuck ICE" like pin on ever single fucking page of the forum for weeks... yep, RPG.Net the place for lack of politics. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Larsdangly;1054571I like making fun of rpg.net as much as the next person, but at the moment their tabletop open forum is a lot better than this one. .

He'll be here all week. Try the veal.

Quote from: estar;1054561In my experience people don't respond well to being handcuffed and taken to a cell. Along with being subjected to a lengthy interrogation and being derived of their possessions and means of communication given the nature of the inciting incident which is a currently appears to be a paperwork problem.

I am sure they had similar experiences to anyone who has been to Gitmo!

After reading this stupid thread, I'm reminded why I took a several year hiatus. Welp, adios again.