New 40k RPG?
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/03/wrath-glory-a-new-way-to-experience-the-dark-imperium/
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/249378/Wrath--Glory-Dark-Tides?it=1&src=Newsletter_OFT_text

What do y'all know about this game???

Quote from: Spinachcat;1053837New 40k RPG?
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/07/03/wrath-glory-a-new-way-to-experience-the-dark-imperium/
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/249378/Wrath--Glory-Dark-Tides?it=1&src=Newsletter_OFT_text

What do y'all know about this game???

I know there's a how-to-play comic extant with wholly inappropriate art

I know the game has the same signs of lazy storygaming mass-consumer garbage design that makes me hesitant to even call it an "RPG" (Fail Forward, "roll for drama", player meta-currencies...)

Therefore, I know that anything remotely interesting that existed in the bloody, macabre and violent pages of clearly superior RPGs which share its branding is totally gone. Meaning it's not even a viable Dune-ripoff anymore (which is basically all it ever was).

But it's not about making something good or fun anymore; it's about the bottom line. I'm sure market research and strategy have made this loss-proof. Unfortunately, they've simultaneously doomed it to grow dusty and unused on the shelves of the ten thousand flighty millennial consumers who will shortly part with their money for it. There this tome of mediocrity will rightfully rot; uninspired, uninteresting, and forgotten.

I wanted to love this game, but I cannot. Just for a start, consider that a Tier 3 Adeptus Astartes Tactical Space Marine will have Strength, Agility, and Toughness scores of 5-7. That's on this scale:

Relative Human
Attribute Values
Value Relative Human Ability
9+ Superhuman: Only alien species or humans enhanced by
special powers, Adeptus Astartes gene-seed, or unusual
items are capable of such extremes.
8 Exceptional: The best most humans can be.
6–7 Outstanding: Very adept or smart, in top physical shape,
very popular.
4–5 High Average: Athletic, intelligent, or amiable.
3 Average: Normal physical shape, intelligence, or
likeability.
2 or less Poor: Unhealthy and weak, uncoordinated and stiff,
weak-minded, unlikable.

That means that the Space Marines are way underpowered. I understand the need for balance, but 7' tall genetically and surgically modified super-soldiers that can't even qualify as "Exceptional: The best most humans can be." (note, that this is speaking of unmodified humans) is just too sad.

The game also has a problem with suggested default arrays of attributes and skills that too expensive for many characters to even afford. I would rather the default arrays be affordable and that people could purchase up from there rather than have to prune down to an affordable level.

Oh, and ascension packages suck, particularly for the costs attached.

Quote from: Azraele;1053842lazy storygaming mass-consumer garbage design that makes me hesitant to even call it an "RPG" (Fail Forward, "roll for drama", player meta-currencies...)

ie. Narrative Shitshow.  I mean this not in the standard sarcastic manner of a game with OOC and narrative control mechanics, yeah this game has them in ridiculous abundance, but that's not really the problem.  The problem is, it's just a random mess of narrative mechanics from Narrative RPGs and Storygames.

"Storygaming mass-consumer garbage design" pretty much sums it up.  Ross Watson was the Lead Developer for the FFG40k system of games which didn't have much "Narrativium" at all (although it started creeping in a bit as the various lines went on).
He also worked on FFGSW, which is a Jay Little Narrative Dice System game.  Most of his actual design work is in not-Narrative designs, and this shows.  The game seems like someone who wanted to slap a bunch of Narrativisms together without really understanding the Whys and Hows of the parent systems that use the mechanics that inspired this one.

I am trying to knock it out of #1 on RPGNow, I am really trying

So yet another bestselling "game" that won't sully the actual tables across the land?

I could barely make it through the comic...and I read 40k novels very happily.

Oh well. Thank all of you for your thoughts.

When the battlecry from Ross Watson for this edition was basically, and I literally quote, "Diverse and Inclusive!" I knew it would be shit.

Quote from: CRKrueger;1054060ie. Narrative Shitshow.  I mean this not in the standard sarcastic manner of a game with OOC and narrative control mechanics, yeah this game has them in ridiculous abundance, but that's not really the problem.  The problem is, it's just a random mess of narrative mechanics from Narrative RPGs and Storygames.

"Storygaming mass-consumer garbage design" pretty much sums it up.  Ross Watson was the Lead Developer for the FFG40k system of games which didn't have much "Narrativium" at all (although it started creeping in a bit as the various lines went on).
He also worked on FFGSW, which is a Jay Little Narrative Dice System game.  Most of his actual design work is in not-Narrative designs, and this shows.  The game seems like someone who wanted to slap a bunch of Narrativisms together without really understanding the Whys and Hows of the parent systems that use the mechanics that inspired this one.

FFG40K was already fully developed and grown before Ross Watson took over the lead development. To his credit, he continued the path that had been laid out before him. However, his own blueprint for the Ulysses version was a mashup of 5e, Savage Worlds, the D6 system, and Fate thrown in there. The results show.

I'm a fan of narrative systems and enjoy meta-currencies, however when I read the quickstart rules my no-no alarm started chiming. My issues isn't having things like "story points" (or whatever they're called in a particular game) it was to sheer amount of paying to fiddle with the narrative. It came across as really clunky.

In something like Cypher, for example, you can spend an XP to re-roll. It's manageable because you don't have infinite XP, but more importantly it doesn't have to happen. If you don't re-roll the game simply doesn't care. GeneSys has Story Points that are kept to only a few (1 for the GM and 1 per PC) and the game doesn't grind down if they aren't used constantly. Even when our group is swapping them back and forth it's quick and easy and the core experience isn't reliant on them.

I noticed that with games like 2d20, Fate and Wrath & Glory the spending of meta-currencies seems to be more of a must, although I could be wrong as I have only played Fate. That thinking may not apply to the others and please correct me if I'm mistaken. Fate was assuredly this way and that's the biggest reason I dislike it. I felt I had to constantly fiddle with the Fate Point economy is jarring ways and it became frustrating to try to remember who invoked that "The Room's On Fire!" Aspect first, etc. Aspects in general were frustrating as they opened up nigh-constant analysis as to if a certain one might apply.

When I noticed what seemed to be the same flow of "required fiddling" in W&G I cringed. Add in that the rules felt clunky in places they shouldn't and the bizarre Tier placements and my excitement waned quickly.

Quote from: Ninneveh;1054090When the battlecry from Ross Watson for this edition was basically, and I literally quote, "Diverse and Inclusive!" I knew it would be shit.

Where/when was that?!

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1054102Where/when was that?!

I will amend my previous statement, it wasn't "Diverse and Inclusive" but "Broad and Inclusive". Cutting a few hairs with semantics though.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/08/40k-rpg-heres-learned.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQSVSANqZVg

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1054102Where/when was that?!

I will amend my previous statement, it wasn't "Diverse and Inclusive" but "Broad and Inclusive". Splitting a hair with semantics though. It is pointed out in the article below, and in the two youtube videos Ross trumpets the phrase both when introducing his thesis for the game as well as when asked questions about the game by people in the audience. One could argue he means it in the way of being able to have an arbiter brushing shoulders with a space marine in a campaign, but it set my SJW spidey sense a tingling.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/08/40k-rpg-heres-learned.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQSVSANqZVg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGOzPxzR4sM

Quote from: Ninneveh;1054106I will amend my previous statement, it wasn't "Diverse and Inclusive" but "Broad and Inclusive". Splitting a hair with semantics though. It is pointed out in the article below, and in the two youtube videos Ross trumpets the phrase both when introducing his thesis for the game as well as when asked questions about the game by people in the audience. One could argue he means it in the way of being able to have an arbiter brushing shoulders with a space marine in a campaign, but it set my SJW spidey sense a tingling.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/08/40k-rpg-heres-learned.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQSVSANqZVg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGOzPxzR4sM

Oh, I feel you on the Spidey Sense a-tingling at times. There's a video where Rodney Thompson's describing Dusk City Outlaws and he mentions the art being "diverse", I believe was the term (apologies, it was quite a while ago, it may have been "inclusive"). My hackles rose and then I saw the art and it was in fact diverse(/inclusive) but in a good way. It had black, white, hispanic, Asian, etc., which was cool because it got me into the feel of what characters might be like. It could've been SJW pandering, however in the absence of proof I put the onus on myself. I can't stand the broad-stroak assumptions SJWs place at the feet of others so I chose not to do the same. Still, the screeching mob's been so freaking prevalent in buzz words and pogroms, it's a natural response to be triggered by the things like the word "triggered".

The game itself is designed to be very broad and inclusive–that's basically the game's catchphrase, but with good reason. The goal of the game is for players to be able to tell the kinds of 40K stories that are exciting, all the way from a squad of inept guardsmen trying to take on a mission that is way above their paygrade, to the Eldar rangers hunting down mystic relics and adventure, to the squad of veteran space marines stomping through a seemingly-empty space hulk. It's an ambitious goal to try and have one system that's expansive enough to include the full range of 40K possibilities (well, excepting Tyranids, of course), while also remaining balanced.
Source: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/08/40k-rpg-heres-learned.html

It's a dog whistle. The SJWs hear "inclusive" and see the black dude with dreads in the comic and the publisher hopes they will become satiated and not attack them. BUT they keep saying "inclusive" means "all of 40k's fun stuff!" which is also true. "Inclusive" mostly means "all of you suckers give us your money."  Of course, the "Narrative Shitshow" mechanics [thank you CRK] and the nigh-anime art style in the comic also shows who they want as an audience. AKA, it's not built to draw 40k players (the canon issues in the comic alone would cause Dakka to go nuclear).

HOWEVER...the concept of a 40k game where you could do an Eldar campaign, an Inquisitor campaign, a Guard campaign etc IS interesting.

EDIT: Just realized I've actually met 3 black gamers with dreads, two play D&D via Org Play and the other was a Shadowrun/Cyberpunk 2020 GM.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1054114The game itself is designed to be very broad and inclusive–that's basically the game's catchphrase, but with good reason. The goal of the game is for players to be able to tell the kinds of 40K stories that are exciting, all the way from a squad of inept guardsmen trying to take on a mission that is way above their paygrade, to the Eldar rangers hunting down mystic relics and adventure, to the squad of veteran space marines stomping through a seemingly-empty space hulk. It's an ambitious goal to try and have one system that's expansive enough to include the full range of 40K possibilities (well, excepting Tyranids, of course), while also remaining balanced.
Source: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/08/40k-rpg-heres-learned.html

It's a dog whistle. The SJWs hear "inclusive" and see the black dude with dreads in the comic and the publisher hopes they will become satiated and not attack them. BUT they keep saying "inclusive" means "all of 40k's fun stuff!" which is also true. "Inclusive" mostly means "all of you suckers give us your money."  Of course, the "Narrative Shitshow" mechanics [thank you CRK] and the nigh-anime art style in the comic also shows who they want as an audience. AKA, it's not built to draw 40k players (the canon issues in the comic alone would cause Dakka to go nuclear).

HOWEVER...the concept of a 40k game where you could do an Eldar campaign, an Inquisitor campaign, a Guard campaign etc IS interesting.

(BTW: skip to 30:50 on first vid for specific quote for W&G for those watching)

(Also, original sourcer, actually timestamp the vid ya prick. Wasted a min scanning for it)

It's annoying how much this shit is now read into. Like bro, that's some serious reading into what he said -- it's literally about "alllll the space marines and bodygloves".

But the fucked-up thing is that now we HAVE to read into this crap these days because these right and left fuckers hold virtual tea parties over godamm words, debating what was meant by "dude, we're gonna make burritos an edible item because burritos, dude". Not even sentences. Words. It's nuts.