Quote from: philreed;1052892The game is three parts:

* Melee - Bash things with your sword, tactical combat game.
* Wizard - Blast things with your spells, tactical combat game.
* In the Labyrinth, the roleplaying rules and setting, including the Advanced Melee and Advanced Wizard rules.

You can play Melee or Wizard by themselves, as skirmish games, or combine them. Or, if you wish, combine all three for roleplaying.

Does that help?

No, that is the opposite of helpful.  What then is the Legacy Edition pdf?  Is it a pdf containing Melee, Wizard, In the Labyrinth, and Tollenkar's Lair, i.e., all the contents of the Legacy Edition box @$60?  Or is it some subset thereof?

Edit:  Okay, from the kickstarter page, if you scroll way down, it seems like the pdf is everything from the $60 physical level, but only in pdf.  So anything above $25 would be for physical components + books, correct?

And "Legacy" edition isn't a new version, it's a reissue?

Apologies for beating a dead horse, but that KS page was not written with new converts in mind.  I suspect the author was too close to the product.

The Legacy edition is a new edition. From information we have from the author's company forums, we should expect the basic structure and most of the content of the game to be closely similar to the original, but it is being fully edited, re-organized, and there are some subtle looking but significant changes. It is a new edition. I expect this will be true of all three major components (Melee, Wizard, In The Labyrinth).

The information on the web site seems to me to clearly state that if you get the PDF you get everything that would go into the Legacy Edition package in pdf form. You obviously won't get physical components like maps and markers and dice. It isn't clear to me whether you would get a pdf form of the markers and maps. If they give you a pdf form of the dice I'ld be curious to hear what you do with it...

While I think OSR fen might well be interested in TFT, I  don't think it fits the definition of an OSR game. Mind you, I don't think that's a criticism. Tweaking D&D is not, in my opinion, the only good approach to game design. TFT, when it came out, was quite original and owed little to D&D, except that D&D created the hobby.

Quote from: Dave R;1052918No, that is the opposite of helpful.  What then is the Legacy Edition pdf?  Is it a pdf containing Melee, Wizard, In the Labyrinth, and Tollenkar's Lair, i.e., all the contents of the Legacy Edition box @$60?  Or is it some subset thereof?

Edit:  Okay, from the kickstarter page, if you scroll way down, it seems like the pdf is everything from the $60 physical level, but only in pdf.  So anything above $25 would be for physical components + books, correct?

And "Legacy" edition isn't a new version, it's a reissue?

Apologies for beating a dead horse, but that KS page was not written with new converts in mind.  I suspect the author was too close to the product.

The new Kickstarter page confuses me too in some ways. Though I understand almost all of it, it's complicated and keeps changing.

I'm not entirely clear what all they mean or don't mean by "Legacy Edition", but I do get that:

* There is no reissue of the original circa-1980 versions.
* There is only really one version of the rules being published (unless you count the Melee & Wizard basic "mini-game" versions, which is where the counters are).
* Legacy Edition is the name of one Kickstarter backer level, which gets you a Legacy Edition boxed set.
* The "boxed Legacy Edition" refers to a boxed set that contains:

QuoteThe two original mini-games, Melee and Wizard, each in its own mini-box.
    The three roleplaying books (In The Labyrinth, Advanced Melee, and Advanced Wizard), combined and updated into a single volume of 160 pages, with the index that the original release lacked.
    The classic dungeon-crawl adventure, Tollenkar's Lair, with a full-color labyrinth map and color cover.
    Death Test, the solo adventure, with color cover.
    Death Test 2, a second solo adventure, with color cover.
    Six sheets of die-cut megahexes.
    A pad of 2.5" x 3.5" character sheets for use with Melee.
    A pad of 5" x 3.5" character sheets for use with Wizard.
    A three-panel, sturdy GM screen.
    Maybe more, depending on what stretch goals are reached. Read on!

My guess is that "Legacy Edition" refers just to that boxed set, and may continue to be called that when they later sell some in stores and/or online. And, that the books will continue to be available as individual products or PDF too, but some or all of them will cost more than they do during the Kickstarter.

TFT is absolutely OSR, double for its retroclone. That said, the major faction of the OSR are AD&D Revivalists so they're not the target for TFT. But among the rest of the OSR factions, exploring TFT is absolutely of interest - especially for its proto-GURPS roots.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1052922The Legacy edition is a new edition.

Okay, did not catch this.  Thought it might have been at one point, then got too much info about the original release.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1052922The information on the web site seems to me to clearly state that if you get the PDF you get everything that would go into the Legacy Edition package in pdf form.

In fairness, it does say that, and if I'd scrolled down far enough I could have skipped my first post.

In some fairness to me though, I thought "what's the lowest level that has the complete game" was a reasonable and straightforward question.  I see now Skarg managed to answer me, but I got so much other info I missed the point.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1052922If they give you a pdf form of the dice I'ld be curious to hear what you do with it...

Heh.  I suppose some day kickstarters will come with 3d printer templates standard, but that's probably still a little ways off.

Quote from: Dave R;1052918What then is the Legacy Edition pdf?  Is it a pdf containing Melee, Wizard, In the Labyrinth, and Tollenkar's Lair, i.e., all the contents of the Legacy Edition box @$60?

Yes.

Quote from: Dave R;1052918So anything above $25 would be for physical components + books, correct?

Yes, with one exception: A softcover printing of The Fantasy Trip Companion is only included at no charge in the I Want It All level. The $25, $30, and $60 levels do include that title in PDF.

Quote from: Dave R;1052918And "Legacy" edition isn't a new version, it's a reissue?

No. The Fantasy Trip Legacy Edition is the overall package, the retail box that will be sold in stores.

There is no reissue. Steve only recovered the rights to the text, not the art or graphics, so there is no exact reprinting of the original titles.

Does that help?

Quote from: Skarg;1052940I'm not entirely clear what all they mean or don't mean by "Legacy Edition",

The Fantasy Trip Legacy Edition is the name of the big box that will be shipped to distributors next year. This is, at the moment, a 10" x 12" box that includes Melee, Wizard, In the Labyrinth (softcover), Tollenkar's Lair, Death Test, Death Test 2, a GM screen, and assorted other bits.

Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1052931While I think OSR fen might well be interested in TFT, I  don't think it fits the definition of an OSR game.

That will depend on how you personally define OSR. If, for you, OSR = only D&D and variants, then The Fantasy Trip is not OSR. If, however, you define OSR as "any game from the earliest days of roleplaying," it is my opinion that TFT lands exactly under the OSR label.

The Fantasy Trip To Open To Creators in 2019 Via Limited Publishing License

In 2019, the world of Cidri, the official setting for Steve Jackson's The Fantasy Trip roleplaying game, expands as everyone is invited to contribute adventures (solo and game mastered), area writeup and history, monsters, characters, treasure, and more to the game.

In celebration and support of the return of The Fantasy Trip, Steve Jackson Games will release a limited publishing agreement for the game in 2019.

Under the terms of the license, writers and illustrators will be able to create original PDFs for sale on Warehouse 23, the Steve Jackson Games web store, and earn royalties for the sale of those works. All PDFs offered for sale under this agreement will have the right to use the world of Cidri and the TFT game mechanics, all under an official "Compatible with The Fantasy Trip" logo.

The limited publishing license will provide fans of The Fantasy Trip with more support than Steve Jackson Games alone can manage, as well as offering creators an opportunity to showcase their talents and transform their ideas into official PDFs.

Please watch thefantasytrip.game for more information on the upcoming TFT Limited Publishing Agreement.

This is really big news for people interested in the OSR community's approach to D+D-like games over the last decade or so. That community has turned out an unbelievable volume of highly creative, very well produced, affordable gaming materials. Honestly, the best ~quarter of what is coming out now is better than what we had from TSR and Judge's Guild in the late 70's. This announcement means there is an avenue for doing the same kind of grass-roots creative work for TFT. The playing field is narrower (i.e., Warehouse 23 rather than just setting up your own Lulu or Drive-through page) and the implication is that there will be profit sharing (though that also happens at DtRPG and Lulu...). Nevertheless, it sounds like a green light to get together your own stuff and put it out there.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1052954The playing field is narrower (i.e., Warehouse 23 rather than just setting up your own Lulu or Drive-through page) and the implication is that there will be profit sharing (though that also happens at DtRPG and Lulu...). Nevertheless, it sounds like a green light to get together your own stuff and put it out there.

We want to keep a close handle on things at the beginning. If this goes well, and once we have the process flowing, we will explore other outlets and expanding the reach of titles produced under this license.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1052954This is really big news for people interested in the OSR community's approach to D+D-like games over the last decade or so. That community has turned out an unbelievable volume of highly creative, very well produced, affordable gaming materials.

The only fly in the ointment are the exact terms. It boils to basically this

1) I can take my Scourge of the Demon Wolf, rewrite it for TFT and release on Warehouse 23. Continue to sell the Swords & Wizardry version elsewhere and perhaps a 5th edition version elsewhere as well. Or take the Deceits of the Russet Lord adventure I been working on release it  on Warehouse23 and for Swords & Wizardry elsewhere.

2) It like the DM's Guild where the work and all its derivatives can only be published on Warehouse23 unless SJ Games otherwise buys it outright or give permission.

If it is #1 then I see a subset of OSR publishers supporting TFT. It is a lite system both in terms what what expected in the way of stats and in actual mechanics so it is a good fit.

If it is #2, then virtually nobody from the OSR will bother with it. Most of the 3PP TFT authors will be a fresh crew so to speak and the 3PP will definitely be a niche of niche.

Either way there will be 3PP products however #1 will have a much more diverse range of offerings as the barriers of participation will be so much lower.

Because the 3PP Traveller Aid Society adopted #2 DM's Guild approach its is a wasteland compared to Cepheus. While TFT has clones it not not analogous situation. Instead what to be avoided is what happened with Cypher, Cortex, and other 3PP product
that don't have strong and popular setting.

What won't be a factor is restricting TFT products to Warehouse23.

Limiting things to Cidri may be an minor issue but Cidri as stated in In the Labyrinth is setup to be the ultimate kitchen sink world. I don't think it going to be a problem, one could always say the adventure or region is set halfway around the planet or something like that. Or that it is in the future or past of Cidri.

Quote from: philreed;1052966We want to keep a close handle on things at the beginning. If this goes well, and once we have the process flowing, we will explore other outlets and expanding the reach of titles produced under this license.

Make sense, personally I don't see being limited to Warehouse23 at first being an issue.

Quote from: philreed;1052945Yes, with one exception: A softcover printing of The Fantasy Trip Companion is only included at no charge in the I Want It All level. The $25, $30, and $60 levels do include that title in PDF.

Oh, bummer, so the only way to get the companion in any form is the I Want it all Level?

I think it would be helpful to increase clarity in exactly what is included in PDF form at the various levels.

Frank