Quote from: Daztur;1052817With 4ed rules you have to just have one or two big climactic fights per session and it works so much better. The thing is you have to teach players to play like that or 4ed is horrifically boring, you can't just play D&D the way it's traditionally been played.

My 4E campaign was one of the best I've ever run, and it was mostly roleplaying factions, with a couple important combats per session. No sustained dungeon-crawling, no trash fights.

Quote from: Daztur;10528174ed is basically an OK ruleset if you play it right.

It's just that they made a game that needs to be played very differently from how D&D is normally played and they didn't tell anyone that. That was a bit dumb.

WotC has a long-standing problem supporting its systems with the wrong kind of adventures. They supported 3/3.5 with adventures that required mix-maxing and gamey crap like wands of magic missile, and then wondered why the game was taken over by twinks. They supported 4E with combat-heavy dungeon crawls when the system is best suited to small numbers of climactic combats. And they're supporting 5E with epic story-driven mega-campaigns, which become a huge grind because you have to stuff them with trash fights in order to attrit the PCs. They should have supported 4E with epic quest stuff like Out of the Abyss and Tomb of Annihilation, and they should be supporting 5E with encounter-dense locales like Thunderspire Labyrinth and Madness at Gardmore Abbey.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1052829Man, I feel like trash fights take too long in 5e while at the same time the system can't really handle two combats per long rest.

5E is really starting to creak under the imperatives of the encounter structure. In order to challenge the PCs, you have to throw encounter after encounter after encounter at them. And solos get roasted, so lots of big encounters. It gets tedious.

Quote from: Haffrung;1052853WotC has a long-standing problem supporting its systems with the wrong kind of adventures.

Quotes for truth. People buy the adventures and think "this is how you design/play", which leads to more garbage.

Quote from: bryce0lynch;1052863Quotes for truth. People buy the adventures and think "this is how you design/play", which leads to more garbage.

It's difficult to design an early adventure in a particular style to fit a game when the writers of the game system have mutually incompatible ideas about how the system works (or in the case of 3E and 4E, three or four mutually incompatible ideas, depending upon how you count).  Part of 5E's success in this respect is that it still has mutually incompatible ways to play, but at least the designers are aware of that enough to sometimes call it out (though not always).  With 5E, they are beginning to show that they at least know what they don't know.

Given that I'm being subtly accused of lying, I'll just retort by stating that Lurtch doesn't know what he's talking about.

In fact, I'll take the opportunity to double down and expand my position and state that, despite all its faults, SJWs have done more to popularize the hobby than most veteran gamers.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;1052878Given that I'm being subtly accused of lying, I'll just retort by stating that Lurtch doesn't know what he's talking about.

In fact, I'll take the opportunity to double down and expand my position and state that, despite all its faults, SJWs have done more to popularize the hobby than most veteran gamers.

I never said you're lying. I said WoTC is lying.

What is your evidence that they've done more to popularize the hobby?

Quote from: DeadUematsu;1052878Given that I'm being subtly accused of lying, I'll just retort by stating that Lurtch doesn't know what he's talking about.

In fact, I'll take the opportunity to double down and expand my position and state that, despite all its faults, SJWs have done more to popularize the hobby than most veteran gamers.

Hate movements primarily complain about things.

So I really doubt SJWs are popularizing anything let alone D&D.

Appeasing them is a waste of marketing. They don't exist to enjoy things. As soon as they do something human like that, the SJW mob mentality is turned off for awhile.

The people popularizing D&D with live play streams aren't SJWs themselves. But given their demographics, they're likely useful idiots for the SJWs - the kind of people who don't buy into the dogma in their private thoughts, but who feel it socially useful to nod and agree with the zealots.

It's like in Victorian England when a white-gloved Christian read aloud from the psalms and denounced the sin rampant in the world, while respectable friends and neighbors would sing along wearing a mask of piety, in their hearts scarcely believing a word of it.

Quote from: Haffrung;1052689According to WotC, half of the people who have played 5E were introduced to the game through live play streams like Critical Role.

WOTC loves to pull these numbers out of the void. Reality says otherwise.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1052829Man, I feel like trash fights take too long in 5e while at the same time the system can't really handle two combats per long rest.

For us fights in 5e tend to warp along fairly fast. As noted in other threads they rarely last longer than 5 minutes. And as long as the group is prepared yes they can handle more than two fights per long rest. Maybee even unprepared.

Doesnt anyone bring potions of healing with them anymore???

I've had 5e sessions with 6 fights and sessions with one fight and they both seem to work fine, so not seeing the problem really.

Quote from: S'mon;1052948I've had 5e sessions with 6 fights and sessions with one fight and they both seem to work fine, so not seeing the problem really.

Did your level have 2 digits?

Quote from: Rhedyn;1052956Did your level have 2 digits?

At any level. Which was surprising. Some fights would end a little faster, some a little longer. But the majority were around 5 rounds.

I feel like the Duffer brothers probably did more for 5e than anything, or anyone else.   I am sure Critical roll probably had its viewership sky rocket after they released their show.  I am also sure the show hit a nostalgia nerve with former players of the 1st edition and 5e is closer to that than 3 or 4e.  I do think critical roll had a place in helping sales, but I think it was the Duffer Brothers WOC should thank for their success.  

   But is it really a success if you had the most popular rpg and totally screwed yourself (4e) and now show a smashing success as finally recovering from a massive blunder?

Quote from: oggsmash;1052999But is it really a success if you had the most popular rpg and totally screwed yourself (4e) and now show a smashing success as finally recovering from a massive blunder?

The Dogbert school of business says "Yes!".

Quote from: Rhedyn;1052956Did your level have 2 digits?

The recent 6 fight session had PCs .ca 6th-7th level, but I have gm'd 5e pcs up through 20th and not seen a general problem. There are occasional sloggy fights like one with a bunch of 57 hp  ogres. But not the systemic issues I see with 4e.