In today's video: When a PC died in the popular Youtube #DnD based Reality-Show Soap Opera "Critical Role", there was an outcry of complaints from their fans (the "critters").
This proves that a big part of the audience are not D&D players, do not actually care about the game, just want to see a story, and have NOTHING IN COMMON with actual D&D gamers. Ergo, there's no such thing as a "Community" with them.

Because in D&D, character death is a huge part of making your character's life worthwhile.

Guest starring: Bill the Elf!

[video=youtube_share;Jld0Yi2PBZ4]https://youtu.be/Jld0Yi2PBZ4[/youtube]

To be fair, I have seen gamers (even playing D&D specifically) that bitch & moan about character deaths. Usually reserved for PC deaths, but I've even seen a few of them do this when certain NPCs are killed. These may not be the players you want in your game, but they are playing and thus are gamers by any definition.

Critical Role is just one huge-ass virtue signal.

Good vid mate...

To be honest, I've only heard about critical roll recently... I checked out one session and felt ill. WTF are all those insipid players doing? Screaming, shouting, hugging and high-fiving. Who actually games like that FFS? I'm far too old and cynical for that malarkey. It felt like I was watching some weird quiz show where the annoying people had just won a Ferrari or something. Ugh!

But back on topic... I'd be the first one that would say, that I don't like killing off characters. But hey it happens. And I'd hope, a PC would be pretty disappointed when it happens as it shows that they really liked their character. But it's a gaming fact! PCs die and in some games they die like flies.

Why would 'viewers' be gutted if a character dies and actually bother to voice their opinions? Unless they are watching some soap opera! Matt Mercer was only doing what a GM does after all. Surely, it would only add to the drama and make the PCs feel more special in the world. I mean, if the PCs feel invulnerable and never die whats the point in playing?

It's interesting.... Because, if you watch any of the other YT channels' actual play (where the channels have a lowish sub) you'll see no such thing. That's because they are watched by gamers and not fans of reality shows.

1. I tend to think this issue is pretty much orthogonal to whether there is a "D&D community", and
2. I am certain there are tons & tons of actual D&D players who don't like GMs and
3. Matt Mercer clearly does run an actual D&D game with stakes and consequences.

Obviously the way Matt, you, me etc do it with real PC death is objectively better than GM-fudged no-death gaming, but those other guys are still playing D&D. There could be a "D&D community" taking both approaches. Heck there may even be an OSR community with both approaches.

So does this, like so many things before it, boil down to 'these people are playing D&D wrong!'?

All that the the Critical Role situation shows that when watching other people experience something that the viewers develop likes and dislikes. When something positive or negative happens people going to have an opinion. This is one of the reason why reality shows works as a genre.

In the case of Critical Role they figured how to make watching a group of player experiencing a tabletop roleplaying campaign entertaining and interesting. The show is just as much about the people participating in the various segments as it is about what they are doing. Thus the observation I made in the first paragraph is going to come into play. It doesn't prove that the audience are D&D hobbyists or not. All it means they really liked how the player roleplayed the character and had a reaction when the character died within the campaign.

And if some of those opinion state strongly that the character should have gotten a pass, well everybody can a have an opinion but it is Matt's table and show.

Meh.  I'll try to give it a watch later.

In all honesty, I'm dreading the production value.  The last video I checked out was landscape, but it was also a sustained shakeycam shot of two of Pundit's books on a desk.  Pundit, if you insist on this format for the visual portion of your productions, then please stabilize what you're using for a camera (presumably a cellphone at this point).

However, I would recommend you switch to a montage for your video portion.  You have lots of images of your hometown along with a ludicrous number of memes.  I think a slideshow of those would go along nicely with your rants.  It's kind of part of the Pundit "brand" anyway.  Even toss in a slide of your game covers into the mix.  Just about anything would be superior to the present video component of your productions.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1049566Because in D&D, character death is a huge part of making your character's life worthwhile.

Well...  That's progress.  At least in text you didn't claim as you historically have that player character death is the only reason RPGs in general are worthwhile.

I would correct your text that in one style of gaming that you prefer, a very strong and broadly applicable style I will readily admit, that player character death can be a huge part of the experience.

Performance Gaming.

Dumb.

But good luck with trying. Eventually one part of the equation will win out over. In the end you get the worse of both.]

Edit: good video btw!

Thing is. D&D players have been bitching about PC deaths for a long long time.

Also note that sometimes the complaints arent so much about the PC death being bad as it is just that the PC died. Akin to seeing a character in a movie die. They just got to liking that character and this is an "awwww." moment rather than a "Fuck you DM this is WRONG!!!" moment.

There is a huge difference between the "awww" player and the "Fuck you DM" player. And this is not isolated to D&D.

Another problem is that some players seem to be utterly blind to the little fact that in D&D death can be undone IF the other players are determined enough. That could be as ,kinda, simple as dragging the body back to a town with a cleric or druid high enough level to raise/reincarnate the lost member. Or an epic voyage into the outer planes to petition the gods to restore the PC. Or whatever other routes the rest of the group is willing to tread to get someone back.

So the PC is dead? Do something about it!

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1049618

This is the first thing I thought of too.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1049566In today's video: When a PC died in the popular Youtube #DnD based Reality-Show Soap Opera "Critical Role", there was an outcry of complaints from their fans (the "critters").
This proves that a big part of the audience are not D&D players, do not actually care about the game, just want to see a story, and have NOTHING IN COMMON with actual D&D gamers. Ergo, there's no such thing as a "Community" with them.

Because in D&D, character death is a huge part of making your character's life worthwhile.

Guest starring: Bill the Elf!

[video=youtube_share;Jld0Yi2PBZ4]https://youtu.be/Jld0Yi2PBZ4[/youtube]

I thought this was an interesting video. My chief quibble in all this is, while plenty of us like to have death on the table in D&D and in other RPGs, I know from just being in the gaming hobby for several decades that a sizable portion of the hobby reacts very negatively to character death. It is a known playstyle at this point (it ranges, but I've definitely met plenty of people who pretty much make character death impossible unless you do something monumentally stupid). So I don't know that people reacting, proves anything about whether they are part of the gaming community or not.

I think there is also the possibility that people are missing the opportunity a show like critical hits affords us. Yes, plenty of people will be watching who don't play, probably will never play, but you are going to have more people trying out the hobby because they were inspired by the show.

It is true people reacted strongly on twitter. People always react strongly on twitter. When characters were killed on Walking Dead or Game of Thrones, people freaked out on social media. But killing off characters has been an effective formula for generating interest in a show. My feeling is Critical Roles probably gained greater interest from its viewers with this death, despite the very public complaints. Just going by how every other type of media seems to operate today.

If most of the player base want PC death off the table, they should revise the game to account for that preference. But it would be a fundamental change to the mechanics. D&D was designed from the ground up as a game where PC death is the fail condition.

I have to say, stuff like this is pretty freaky - they definitely are using scripted fiction terminology to describe what's going on.