Is 5e a Fad?

RPGPundit · July 12, 2018, 06:38:16 AM

It seems pretty clear that D&D 5e is doing spectacularly well, and is more popular than ever, maybe than D&D has ever been in terms of raw numbers of people playing.

But is this a fad? Are a bunch of people playing now because of Stranger Things and other nostalgic nods to D&D, and will that pass?

Nerzenjäger · July 12, 2018, 07:31:41 AM

I think it's the other way around. It took a few generations to bring creators into mass media that were D&D players in order to do the necessary nods in their tv shows, books, and so forth.

5E was engineered to be what it is now. There's also a lot of clever cross-licencing involved with D&D (board- and videogames) and you can feel the bleedover of its popularity in other mass media.

Peak mainstream nerd culture certainly helped it too and the acknowledgment of journalists, that it all started with D&D.

What I'm saying, is, that a lot of individual factors fell into place. Some of it deliberately.

Is it a fad? I'd say no. But it won't maintain its peak forever. That's how it always goes.

Rhedyn · July 12, 2018, 08:01:24 AM

I think 5e is primarily a gateway game. I notice that people tend to move on to other games even if 5e was their first.

That doesn't mean 5e won't stay the most popular. It's probably bringing in more new people than it loses and retention for RPGs in general is poor. It's a difficult hobby to have.

Armchair Gamer · July 12, 2018, 08:33:58 AM

The current spike very well may be; the hobby does tend to cycle a bit in terms of popular consciousness. WotC seems to have figured out how to ride this spike better than TSR did in the 80s or they did themselves with the 3E launch, but all things pass.

It won't die unless something dramatically better at filling the niches comes along (and if MMOs haven't done that, I'm not sure what could), but it will probably recede again in time.

finarvyn · July 12, 2018, 08:38:51 AM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1048613It won't die unless something dramatically better at filling the niches comes along (and if MMOs haven't done that, I'm not sure what could), but it will probably recede again in time.

Also keep in mind that the brand name "Dungeons & Dragons" carries a lot of weight in terms of name recognition. Folks may not have heard of Pathfinder or Castles & Crusades or DCC RPG, but they've all heard of D&D.

NYTFLYR · July 12, 2018, 09:02:40 AM

having not looked at D&D since 3.5... is there still the "Feat Bloat" that was found in 3.5?

Naburimannu · July 12, 2018, 09:18:25 AM

Quote from: NYTFLYR;1048620having not looked at D&D since 3.5... is there still the "Feat Bloat" that was found in 3.5?

How are you defining Feat Bloat?

5e has no feat chains / prerequisites.
5e has and is intended to have fewer feats than 4e or 3.5e.
I think characters should have no more than 6 feats at maximum level (unless there are specific classes granting extra feats?).
Feats are GM-optional, so a campaign can be "by-the-book" without having them at all.

Broken Twin · July 12, 2018, 09:19:03 AM

Quote from: NYTFLYR;1048620having not looked at D&D since 3.5... is there still the "Feat Bloat" that was found in 3.5?

Nope. You can choose between taking a feat or attribute boost every four class levels, the fighter being the exception as always. Technically, feats are optional in 5E, though I have yet to see a GM that didn't use them.

Steven Mitchell · July 12, 2018, 09:51:31 AM

I suspect there is somewhat of a fad running on top of real interest and popularity--mixed in with people who simply want to try it, some of whom will lose interest over time--and the whole business having network effects as well. I don't know how one would begin to tease out the proportions of each factor. Or if it would matter, if you could tease them out. If a fad causes a network effect that keeps other people interested in trying the game, for example, the results are the same in the long run.

Steven Mitchell · July 12, 2018, 09:56:21 AM

Quote from: NYTFLYR;1048620having not looked at D&D since 3.5... is there still the "Feat Bloat" that was found in 3.5?

I've had 20+ characters, currently ranging in levels from 2nd to 9th. I allow feats, including the "variant human" that can take one at 1st level. The feats are solid options. The mix of characters and levels translates to around 40+ opportunities to take feats. Three characters have taken one feat each. It may increase somewhat at higher levels, but I seriously doubt most characters will take more than 1.

Dimitrios · July 12, 2018, 10:13:32 AM

Quote from: NYTFLYR;1048620having not looked at D&D since 3.5... is there still the "Feat Bloat" that was found in 3.5?

Feats in 5e are a means to customize your character a bit and give your character concept some mechanical consequences. They are not an entire complex optimization mini-game in themselves like they used to be.

Tod13 · July 12, 2018, 10:24:00 AM

Quote from: finarvyn;1048617Also keep in mind that the brand name "Dungeons & Dragons" carries a lot of weight in terms of name recognition. Folks may not have heard of Pathfinder or Castles & Crusades or DCC RPG, but they've all heard of D&D.

My players all call our games "D&D" even though I'm the only one who has ever played D&D. (And our home brew is not D&D.)

MonsterSlayer · July 12, 2018, 10:48:27 AM

I wouldn't think 5E is anymore of a fad than D&D in general. Doesn't appear to be trending that way.

Willie the Duck · July 12, 2018, 10:49:18 AM

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1048628I suspect there is somewhat of a fad running on top of real interest and popularity--mixed in with people who simply want to try it, some of whom will lose interest over time--and the whole business having network effects as well. I don't know how one would begin to tease out the proportions of each factor. Or if it would matter, if you could tease them out. If a fad causes a network effect that keeps other people interested in trying the game, for example, the results are the same in the long run.

That is my take as well. People have heard that 'that D&D thing' is back and a big deal and are checking it out, but that doesn't change that major changes to the business have changed ('everyone's a geek now' is kind of a forgone conclusion in the era of Marvel blockbusters, and WotC is making a 'market to the casual gamer rather than the die-hard' push that I think would benefit them even if there were no Stranger Things or anything else).

Quote from: finarvyn;1048617Also keep in mind that the brand name "Dungeons & Dragons" carries a lot of weight in terms of name recognition. Folks may not have heard of Pathfinder or Castles & Crusades or DCC RPG, but they've all heard of D&D.

I suspect that what would replace current spike D&D would be future D&D, be that 5th edition or 6th, and the real question is if 10-year-from-now TTRPG is highly popular or more like during the non-fad 'holding pattern' eras like we're currently leaving.

Motorskills · July 12, 2018, 11:05:37 AM

If it was a fad it would have disappeared two years ago.

I think the reference to Stranger Things is a bit of a red herring. 5e was going to come out regardless of other factors, and be popular because of its mechanical accessibility.

What is different is the general acceptance of geek / nerd culture via Marvel movies, Settlers of Catan, etc. There has been mutual reinforcement because of the 1980s nostalgia kick, but that has as much to do with music (lots of 80's bands have been returning to the road in the past few years) as TV shows.

There has also been a virtuous circle of women joining in, because the game is accessible and their (female) friends are playing, and that has helped boost the numbers.