Im not that interested in the 5e version since I don't run it. The 3,5 version was too dense for me and the 5e seems even more so. But I am a bit curious about how orignal I6 Ravenloft compares to House of Strahd. I have no nostalgia for either 1ed or 2ed AD&D per se so it is not a factor for me. I want to run it with some OSR rule set anyway and may or may not run it as connected to the broader Ravenloft setting.

Quote from: Teodrik;1046813But I am a bit curious about how orignal I6 Ravenloft compares to House of Strahd. I have no nostalgia for either 1ed or 2ed AD&D per see so it is not a factor for me. I want to run it with some OSR rule set anyway and may or may not run it as connected to the broader Ravenloft setting.

  House of Strahd is pretty much "I6: Special Edition." You get guidelines for running the module with either 10th-level or 16top-level Strahd (with encounter options scaled to match either general power range), some polishing of the descriptions, some expanded fortune-telling stuff, and a few other bells and whistles.

Quote from: Teodrik;1046813Im not that interested in the 5e version since I don't run it 5e. The 3,5 version was too dense for me and the 5e seems even more so. But I am a bit curious about how orignal I6 Ravenloft compares to House of Strahd. I have no nostalgia for either 1ed or 2ed AD&D per see so it is not a factor for me. I want to run it with some OSR rule set anyway and may or may not run it as connected to the broader Ravenloft setting.

I once ran a game called Maidenloft. It was, as you could guess, a Mashup of MAID and Ravenloft. The maids were in the service of Strahd. I ran it using Mutants and Masterminds 3e, and the game was basically castle defense, with the maids fighting an angry mob of Paladins, Clerics, and Nuns with nunchuks with a bunch of peasants with torches and pitchforks. There was no romance or any of the content people complain about in MAID.

Anyhow, I have a point to this. One of my favorite Ravenloft settings is Gothic Earth from Masque of the Red Death. So for Maidenloft, I took some of the Dread Domains and dropped them in Gothic Eastern Europe. I did this purely because I thought it would be fun to have a setting where Strahd and Dracula were neighbors. Here's the map I made with Google Earth and Paint Shop Pro 7 with fun filters from Photobucket when Photobucket had fun filters. Yes, I did add Latveria because I also had the Doctor Doom boxed set for the old Marvel Superheroes game, which I ended up giving to a friend who loved Doom more than I ever will. That version of Victor Von Doom was quite Steampunk and one of the maids was a Steampunk android that he made.

I took I6 Ravenloft down last night and looked through it for the first time in years.  I've had this module since it was originally released.  I've read it a few times.  I've even played it a couple of times.  I've never thought it was particularly special.  When I read it originally, nothing made an impression on me.  When I played it, the GMs ran it as a generic dungeon crawl.

I blame the opening "room" of the castle.  As soon as you walk in the courtyard, you're going to get attacked by 4 monsters that come across as gargoyles but are statted as very young red dragons.  It sets a tone for the castle, and that tone is that it's time to start hackin' away.  I know when I played, as soon as this encounter occurred, I went into traditional "D&D mode" of just going down corridors, choosing doors, and looking for the next monster to kill and take their stuff.  It also set the tone as I was reading.  As it happens very early on, it historically made me look at the rest of the module as nothing more than the typical keyed monster encounter box.

You know, I NEVER noticed the Guardian of Sorrow?  Not once in all these years had I ever noticed that or encounteed it in either playthru.  I don't know how the hell I missed it.  There's tons of atmospheric stuff in the module which I always just skipped over because of the aforementioned shift in tonal assumption.

I also found myself wondering how characters are expected to approach solving it.  I think in one playthru the GM didn't even notice the note the one spiral staircase is blocked.  In another playthrough, I seem to recall finding the secret door in the office which led down to the crypt.  Looking at it now, I wonder if maybe the intended way to get down to the crypt is to go all the way up to the top of the high tower and then either feather fall or rappel down the shaft?

Quote from: Gabriel2;1046879When I played it, the GMs ran it as a generic dungeon crawl.

I'm guessing this was the case of the guy who did the 1.5 hour speed run.

Quote from: Krimson;1046880I'm guessing this was the case of the guy who did the 1.5 hour speed run.

Not looking at the module as I type this, but going on memory.

Assuming the DM described things well and the players were observant, I can see the party noticing the windows on the crypt level.  In fact, if one goes to a specific area of the castle and looks over the cliff, the windows are pointed out in boxed text.

I'm not going to comment on the whole thing about using the girl as bait.  I don't recall much about that part of the module.  I don't think it was used in my playthrus.  But if it's fairly obvious the girl is being targeted by the vampire, then it does seem like players would realistically use that as a way to lure the vampire out.

However, after a party rappels down and crashes through the windows, I think the only exit from the room they find themselves in is a stairway going up.  Halfway up this stairway is a landing with a golden energy field blocking the way.  This field can only be passed by characters of lawful good alignment.

Now, since this is the daytime and Strahd has been wounded, he wouldn't be in that room when the PCs crash in.  He'd be over in his crypt room in his coffin.  To get there, I think the PCs need to go through the LG only energy field.  So were all the PCs of lawful good alignment, or was that particular force field just ignored?

And from a dungeon design perspective, how does Strahd get through the energy field to go to that room?

Maybe there's an alternate passage, but I don't remember.

Quote from: Krimson;1046880I'm guessing this was the case of the guy who did the 1.5 hour speed run.

Yeah.  There was literal no thought on the part of the DM, from what I could tell.

Quote from: Gabriel2;1046879I took I6 Ravenloft down last night and looked through it for the first time in years.  I've had this module since it was originally released.  I've read it a few times.  I've even played it a couple of times.  I've never thought it was particularly special.  When I read it originally, nothing made an impression on me.  When I played it, the GMs ran it as a generic dungeon crawl.

I blame the opening "room" of the castle.  As soon as you walk in the courtyard, you're going to get attacked by 4 monsters that come across as gargoyles but are statted as very young red dragons.  It sets a tone for the castle, and that tone is that it's time to start hackin' away.  I know when I played, as soon as this encounter occurred, I went into traditional "D&D mode" of just going down corridors, choosing doors, and looking for the next monster to kill and take their stuff.  It also set the tone as I was reading.  As it happens very early on, it historically made me look at the rest of the module as nothing more than the typical keyed monster encounter box.

You know, I NEVER noticed the Guardian of Sorrow?  Not once in all these years had I ever noticed that or encounteed it in either playthru.  I don't know how the hell I missed it.  There's tons of atmospheric stuff in the module which I always just skipped over because of the aforementioned shift in tonal assumption.

I also found myself wondering how characters are expected to approach solving it.  I think in one playthru the GM didn't even notice the note the one spiral staircase is blocked.  In another playthrough, I seem to recall finding the secret door in the office which led down to the crypt.  Looking at it now, I wonder if maybe the intended way to get down to the crypt is to go all the way up to the top of the high tower and then either feather fall or rappel down the shaft?

Hence why I've always contended that Ravenloft is simply a bad fit for D&D.

And what kind of moronic, diabolically incompetent blood sucker PUTS WINDOWS IN A CRYPT???

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1047116Yeah.  There was literal no thought on the part of the DM, from what I could tell.



Hence why I've always contended that Ravenloft is simply a bad fit for D&D.

And what kind of moronic, diabolically incompetent blood sucker PUTS WINDOWS IN A CRYPT???

Just to be able to shill with a relaxing bath of moonlight those nights when he just want to stay in his crypt with feelz and self-pity? He's is tragically romantic after all.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1047116And what kind of moronic, diabolically incompetent blood sucker PUTS WINDOWS IN A CRYPT???

Whose to say Strahd put them there. The Dark Powers might have made modifications.

Quote from: Krimson;1047193Whose to say Strahd put them there. The Dark Powers might have made modifications.

I'd say it's more likely they predate the transformation and are a homage to some bits from Dracula.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1047195I'd say it's more likely they predate the transformation and are a homage to some bits from Dracula.

Also I seem to recall that the Castle Ravenloft existed before he took control, while still human.

Uhm, crypts don't have windows usually.  Typically they're underground too, but even above ground ones are sealed, especially the ones designed to hold the dead.  And that's in the real world, where undead haven't been confirmed as existing, except my mom, but that's only before she's had her cup of coffee.  In a world where undead DO exist, even BEFORE Strahd became Dracula, they wouldn't put windows on a crypt because it's likely believed that the Night empowers Undead and sealing them away protects the dead for their eternal 'rest'.

So again, killing Strahd in 1.5 hours?  Shenanigans!

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1047198So again, killing Strahd in 1.5 hours?  Shenanigans!

It doesn't sound like the player's fault. Funny thing is, treating it like a dungeon crawl really doesn't bug me about that story so much as the time thing. The reason is, if I spend money on a module, I want to get more than 1.5 hours of fun out of it.

Quote from: Krimson;1047204It doesn't sound like the player's fault. Funny thing is, treating it like a dungeon crawl really doesn't bug me about that story so much as the time thing. The reason is, if I spend money on a module, I want to get more than 1.5 hours of fun out of it.

It's clearly a DM problem, and I'm with you.  S'why I like the 5e Into The Abyss adventure, simply because it has a couple of sections I can use over and over and never have to touch the adventure itself.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1047116Yeah.  There was literal no thought on the part of the DM, from what I could tell.

This was over 30 years ago: I was 16 years old, and probably stoned. So no, not the masterful management of mechanics and theme, and fluid improvisation that I demonstrate today :rolleyes:

Nonetheless, the dungeon had some serious flaws, and those flaws were exploited by players who hadn't learned (and didn't care to learn) how to properly play a story-driven D&D adventure. It was Ravenloft, along with Rahasia (another Hickman module) that showed our group that published TSR adventures have moved far from our preferences. Those were the last two TSR modules we played for almost 15 years.