Quote from: jhkimIf regular convention attendees are being ejected for no good reason, then talk about that. That sounds bad to me if it is really happening.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1043546What do you mean by good reason? For example, the Honey Badgers were thrown out of Calgary Expo for engaging with a panel, and while they took that opportunity to monologue rather than ask questions, I still don't think it justifies removing them from the event.

Calgary Expo doesn't have any role-playing, does it?  Moreover, that isn't regular attendees just doing gaming or whatever. From what you say, it's a group intentionally disrupting a panel to monologue.

What I care about is whether regular attendees who just want to go to the convention and have fun gaming can go and game and be themselves. There may be examples of people like this having genuine problems from the convention, but the above isn't an example of that, nor is whoever the guests of honor are.

My preference isn't to force everyone to be non-political, it's for people to be OK with having people of different politics at the same event.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1043546And the reason Larry Correia was dropped as a guest is because someone claimed he made (specifically 'brown' people) feel unsafe. Not because of his politics. Not because of his pro-gun stance. Not even because of his Sad Puppies involvement. Because he was _dangerous_.

Which of course is the biggest load of horseshit imaginable.

And then they bring on Anita Sarkeesian, someone with an actual political agenda, who bullied attendees and fellow panelists at VidCon, and all but tells people they're bad for liking certain games.

So sorry, this is transparently political, and how the end of rpg.net began.

I agree that there is politics going on - there always is. The question is, does that politics matter to an ordinary convention-goer who doesn't give a damn who the guests of honor are?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1043579How do you think GenCon would react to a Gamers for Free Speech rally on opening day?

Politics divides, gaming unites. Why shouldn't game cons be about uniting people instead of inciting further divisions?

By saying "gaming unites", you're clearly blinding yourself to edition wars, storygaming-vs-traditional, and a ton of other divisions.  

It's been years since I've been the Gen Con, and I'm not going to speak for them.

Speaking for myself - If the rally is trying to be disruptive to people who just want to go and game - to shout and chant at people, then I'm against it. If they're just going to meet in some convention room or event, then I'm for that.

Quote from: jhkim;1043598By saying "gaming unites", you're clearly blinding yourself to edition wars, storygaming-vs-traditional, and a ton of other divisions.  

That's online bullshit. At cons, I rarely see any of the nonsense that gets wanked about online.

I'm often one of the few non-Organized Play GMs at our FLGS game days. 80% of attendees are only there for AL or PFS, but the couple tables of other games never get hassled. At most, I get inquisitive younger players wondering about OD&D and asking why would anyone still play it.

And then 2 hours later, they're OSR acolytes praying to Gygax for their own demonic powers.

Quote from: jhkim;1043598Speaking for myself - If the rally is trying to be disruptive to people who just want to go and game - to shout and chant at people, then I'm against it. If they're just going to meet in some convention room or event, then I'm for that.

I fully agree with you, but GenCon would never allow that. A non-partisan free speech rally, let alone a MAGA rally, would cause them to shit kittens.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1043608That's online bullshit. At cons, I rarely see any of the nonsense that gets wanked about online.

Even online, I don't see RPG politics on the Facebook RPG Designers group. About half the designers appear to be storygamers and half traditional RPGs. Both groups try to help each other without saying "you're doing it wrong".

The only politics I've seen there is one of the mods virtue signalling about Larry's dis-invite. And most people just ignored it.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1043496Then make right-wing conventions. I know I would attend. I can't wait for the panel discussion on "Orthodox Aestheticism and the Polyhedral Die".

And a couple of bomb threats later no one will rent a venue.

Don't doubt for a second that it wouldn't happen.

Quote from: jhkim;1043595I agree that there is politics going on - there always is. The question is, does that politics matter to an ordinary convention-goer who doesn't give a damn who the guests of honor are?

Since this is a topic of discussion here, I'd say yes.

Here's the thing. If GenCon is moving away from being "The Best Four Days In Gaming" and towards promoting a political agenda, why should gamers spend their money in support of GenCon if they do not agree with their political agenda?

Everybody knows GaryCon is the best four days in gaming.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1043611And a couple of bomb threats later no one will rent a venue.

Don't doubt for a second that it wouldn't happen.

I strongly believe any old school convention is right wing. But that's a discussion for another day...

If you polled the adults at GaryCon, most of them are probably right of center.

However, nobody does because nobody cares.  We're there to game.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1043634I strongly believe any old school convention is right wing.

Why?

Quote from: jeff37923;1043619why should gamers spend their money in support of GenCon if they do not agree with their political agenda?

To get the "GenCon experience" - which is important to some gamers.

However, if the "GenCon experience" isn't important to any gamer of any political stripe, then attending a regional or local small convention will be cheaper and probably more fun and you're supporting the gamers in your own area.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1043686Why?

Because I believe gaming choices reflect political or at least philosophical alignments. On a spectrum, of course.

Well at least here I don't believe the people missing the point are operating in bad faith.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043583I agree politics have no place there, but my point (and I do have one) is that it will NOT be the end of GenCon, gaming, and the entire universe.

It was the end of rpg.net, and your time there. And if you don't think this is trickling down to realspace you're out of your mind. The exact same signs are present.

Quote from: jhkim;1043595Calgary Expo doesn't have any role-playing, does it?

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

Quote from: jhkim;1043595Moreover, that isn't regular attendees just doing gaming or whatever. From what you say, it's a group intentionally disrupting a panel to monologue.

Let's say they were. Then being removed from the panel, or shut down by the moderator, would be the answer.

And let's not forget Anita considered Sargon to be harassing her by simply sitting in the audience, when she was the one who pointed him out to call him a 'garbage human'.

These people have unilateral power to determine whether someone is being disruptive, engaging in harassment, or not a good fit for a forum, without having to justify or define anything. It's simply true because of who they are. And at this point you're endorsing that state of affairs.

Quote from: jhkim;1043595What I care about is whether regular attendees who just want to go to the convention and have fun gaming can go and game and be themselves.

But the argument is that they can't go and be themselves if certain other people are present.

Quote from: jhkim;1043595does that politics matter to an ordinary convention-goer who doesn't give a damn who the guests of honor are?

It does when the people running the event start demanding that it does.

Which is already happening online. Make a post about wanting to keep real world politics out of gaming and watch as the swarm tells you how 'privileged' you are to not have to worry about all of their problems. How just having fun is itself a political statement and reinforces the status quo. And how you're a bad person for dismissing their concerns by wanting to treat a game as just a game. There are even people who consider buying Adventurer Conqueror King to be tantamount to genocide, and they tend to be the ones most eager to take control of social networks and events.

So if they get control they won't allow you to not care about the politics.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1043698There are even people who consider buying Adventurer Conqueror King to be tantamount to genocide, and they tend to be the ones most eager to take control of social networks and events.

Usually I avoid bollocks like this by staying out of pundits forum but since it's seeped here and replaced talking about games...

However my morbid curiosity is enticed, what does ACKs have to do with genocide?

Quote from: HorusArisen;1043708Usually I avoid bollocks like this by staying out of pundits forum but since it's seeped here and replaced talking about games...

However my morbid curiosity is enticed, what does ACKs have to do with genocide?

• ACKS is written by Alexander Macris.
• Macris founded the Escapist and then sold it, and it became Defy Media.  He stayed onboard.
• He didn't buy the anti-gamergate smokescreen and was critical of Quinn and other gaming sites involved in the Quinnspiracy. - STRIKE ONE
• For Defy media, he ran Break.com, a series of sites that were more Red than Blue in outlook and audience. - STRIKE TWO
• Based on that (and the fact that he's highly intelligent, educated and knows how to run internet businesses), he was offered and accepted the CEO position of Milo Inc, headed by Milo Yiannopolis. - STRIKE THREE
• After Milo's empire imploded once his biggest backer died, Macris lost some of his titles, but still is involved with Milo's other businesses to some degree I think?

So yeah, to a SJW, Alex is basically Hitler. :rolleyes: