Something I didn't really think of before, but Runequest 3 and Pendragon have an appearance score instead of the more common Charisma. I was thinking that this is not necessarily a bad thing, as it is a bit more specific on whether the character is good looking or not (albeit still open to interpretation. People have different taste after all). Some games may have what essentially amounts to both (e.g. Artesia). What is your preference?

If I HAVE to choose, I prefer Charisma, but only as force of personality, completely divorced from any mention of it relating to appearance.  Because how good looking you are might get people's attention, but how your ideas comes out of your mouth keeps them listening.

I've never liked appearance as a stat.

Why is that level of granularity necessary?

It works better in a system that has advantages and disadvantages, or as a feat or something like that to represent that your character is either extremely good looking or ugly.

I like Charisma because it can mean different things for different characters -- one person might be attractive but have no social skills while another could be average in appearance but a great orator, and those two characters might have the same Charisma score.

As to the name of the stat, I always felt that many RPGs simply tried to copy D&D and rename the base six D&D stats, and that these names weren't really intended to imply differences in what the stats did. So Strength might become Power or Muscle, Dexterity could be Quickness or Agility, and so on.

I'm happy with neither as stats per se, but them being recognized as two different sorts of things.

I leave Appearance up to the player (unless the system uses some form of point buy involving appearances, ala James Bond). Charisma is a good enough umbrella. I prefer 6 stats (all combining various things under their individual umbrellas) and I feel games go wonky when we pass 8-10 stats. However, I thought Star Frontiers did a good job with the duality of stats.

One reason why I kinda like an APP stat, is that being good-looking is sometimes a huge advantage. At other times it can actually be a bit of a disadvantage, but to a less degree. Being extraordinarily ugly or beautiful is also interesting from a roleplaying point of view. I'm not really dogmatic about this though, as I agree that it can be handled with advantages/disadvantages, but I think that APP is underrated.

Also, I have noticed some games that don't have any way to distinguish between the charisma of, say, Salma Hayek and Adolf Hitler . I remember one edition of Rolemaster didn't even distinguish this in their "seduction" skill, so I sometimes think the issue sometimes enters into skills as well.

I like the way Savage World does it, personally.  But that's just me.

I'm not fond of either stat. Appearance is way too subjective to be used believably for me, and anything I'd use a Charisma stat for I generally prefer to leave to player agency.

I just use CHA and let the player decide is the CHA stat is a result of appearance, personality or a combination of both somehow..
I don't think too hard on it really.

Quote from: Zalman;1041016I'm not fond of either stat. Appearance is way too subjective to be used believably for me, and anything I'd use a Charisma stat for I generally prefer to leave to player agency.

Subjective meaning what, specifically? Like interspecies appearance, or just in general? Also, CHA in D&D is really just a way to determine how many henchman you can get and how loyal they are; it's pretty difficult to determine that stuff, in game, without some sort of stat.

Quote from: danskmacabre;1041029I just use CHA and let the player decide is the CHA stat is a result of appearance, personality or a combination of both somehow..
I don't think too hard on it really.

THis, basically. You are a s good looking as you like but if you're Charisma is 11, you're a forgetable oil painting. Conversly, you can be fairly average looking but have a magnetic gaze or a silver tongue with CHA 15. Up to you. And the ability score.

And if the player does not define it, he or she has some inexplicable loyalty earning thing. People just root for you.

Quote from: TJS;1041000I've never liked appearance as a stat.

Why is that level of granularity necessary?

It works better in a system that has advantages and disadvantages, or as a feat or something like that to represent that your character is either extremely good looking or ugly.

I tend to agree with this. Appearance should be a game feature in games where such things are important, but rarely fits the mold that other attributes use as helping with resolution mechanics.

I actually prefer what Champions/Hero System does, and uses (predominantly) the "Presence" stat. That removes any mystery on whether a nose-picking orc chieftain, Attila the Hun, or heck Sloth from Goonies (any character whose threat of action dictates your behavior as much as any action they actually do) has a really high score or really low -- if they can control your behavior, it's high.

Quote from: Brad;1041033Subjective meaning what, specifically? Like interspecies appearance, or just in general?

Interspecies differences as to what one finds physically attractive are only a generalization of the fact that every single individual of every species has different feelings on the matter. What constitutes a "physically attractive appearance" differs for everyone to lesser or greater extent -- enough so that codifying a standard of attractive appearance feels utterly nonsensical to me.

Quote from: Brad;1041033Also, CHA in D&D is really just a way to determine how many henchman you can get and how loyal they are; it's pretty difficult to determine that stuff, in game, without some sort of stat.

I don't seem to have any trouble determining if a character's in-game actions are "charismatic" enough to maintain or attract henchmen. I prefer that method to using a stat, because characters that act repulsively but still manage to attract followers breaks verisimilitude for me. Of course, the Charisma stat has been increasingly used/abused over the years of D&D to mean more than just "number of henchmen", which makes the situation that much worse.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1041058People just root for you.

Ahh, so that explains it. I feel blessed.