Quote from: Mike the Mage;1040898Well, IME punks were by and large Anarchists (Crass, Sex Pistols) and the subculture of NeoNazi Punks were viewed as enemies.

"In a real fourth Reich you'll be the first to go." - Nazi Punks Fuck Off, Dead Kennedys.

In fact Neo Nazis have a habit of piggybacking off subcultures: a phenomenon similar to Nazi Punks were Nazi Skins who, with the help of the salacious MSM managed to co-opt the skinhead movement which was born out  of working class Oi!, ska, reggae, 2 Tone and ska, which was originally a melding of West Indies sounds with rock/punk music.

Two good movies that I think depict these eras well are SLC Punk! and This is England.

WARNING: TRAILERS CONTAIN STRONG LANGUAGE AND RACIAL SLURS. NSFW!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DILdeHgWF-U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0jkv2bRFgQ

Anyway, I will not get any further off-topic .

We had SHARPS* here in the North East US as a pushback.

*SkinHeads Against Racial Prejudice

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1040898Two good movies that I think depict these eras well are SLC Punk! and This is England.

This Is England might have been a good depiction of skinhead culture ca 1978-1979. Unfortunately it was set after the 1982 Falklands War, in order to blame Thatcher for the ennui of the 1970s. In the real world, the ennui of the 1970s produced Thatcher.

1978-1979 gave us Reaper which gave us Warhammer which gave us WFRP!

I'm an Anthrax/Slayer fan from the early day, back when both bands had mixed fans of punks and metalheads. We used to have lots of punks at metal shows. Both groups were often painted with Nazi brush, which Anthrax pushed back hard against (Scotty Ian the guitarist is Jewish), while Slayer just said fuck it and adopted pseudo-Nazi iconography while writing songs decrying the Nazis and anything authoritarian.  

Quote from: Mike the Mage;10409061978-1979 gave us Reaper which gave us Warhammer which gave us WFRP!

Thatcher is the Emperor!

I feel like this thread has taken 9 turns at Albuquerque and veered way off course. :-D

Mostly I'm just happy that it will live here forever so when people search about the controversy, this post should come up. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and debate.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1040874Do you really see no difference?

And...it's funny because "those damn punks" were often called Neo Nazis back then!

Well, then, if you prefer,

"Those damn hippies with their maryjoowanna and loud music are destroying America"
"Those damn beatniks with their poetry and expresso (sic) are destroying America"
"Those damn zoot suiters with their rotgut booze and shameless women are destroying America"
"Those damn Cro-Magnons with their fire and their big brains are destroying Village By The Hill"
...et cetera

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041145Well, then, if you prefer,

"Those damn hippies with their maryjoowanna and loud music are destroying America"

Where are the hippies now? Corporate shills that sold out their naive beliefs for a more ruthless narcissistic reality.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041145"Those damn beatniks with their poetry and expresso (sic) are destroying America"

Beatniks the OG Hipsters that made a secular religion of superficiality that made a mockery of authenticity to art.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041145"Those damn zoot suiters with their rotgut booze and shameless women are destroying America"

Zoot-Suiters started riots in LA because they did not want white sailors returning home from WWII to "invade" their neighborhoods and hangout ares. It's a bit of local history but yeah it was an ugly scene that in the big picture became one of the first big "race-issues" in SoCal. Arguably it's still there, just different. Zoot-suiters aren't. Ironically Eleanor Roosevelt *made* it about race, and she was accused of being a communist for suggesting the riots were based purely on local racism.

More than a few leftist political activists came out of the Zoot-Suit fad.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041145"Those damn Cro-Magnons with their fire and their big brains are destroying Village By The Hill"
...et cetera

And they did. And the Neanderthals are no more.

I know you're being rhetorical I'm just trying to make a counter point. There are objective standards to that which is "good" - clearly, since we all engage in this hobby. Before we used to talk about gaming. Now it's the discussion of politics invading gaming.

After a thousand blows to the moral compass on ones box of principles, the compass stops working and it's easy to go astray. At some point there is nothing left to hand down. The lessons become lost.

We have young people today that don't have those and now have embraced an ideology that gives them short-term benefits based on lies. They engage in behavior that is hypocritical and ultimately unethical in the pursuit of revenge for things they don't even understand. Things we've held to be true to our civic principles: Free speech, and Due-Process are almost irrelevant to those on the far left. Those on the middle in their attempts to appear tolerant only legitimize that erosion.

After a thousand cuts, sometimes things do actually die.

Quote from: tenbones;1041161We have young people today that don't have those and now have embraced an ideology that gives them short-term benefits based on lies. They engage in behavior that is hypocritical and ultimately unethical in the pursuit of revenge for things they don't even understand. Things we've held to be true to our civic principles: Free speech, and Due-Process are almost irrelevant to those on the far left. Those on the middle in their attempts to appear tolerant only legitimize that erosion.

After a thousand cuts, sometimes things do actually die.

My only disagreement is that it's not "the far left."  It's the rich.

In the Wars of the Roses, the Lancastrians and Yorkists fought for the crown of England.  The peasants and footsoldiers, the poor bastards doing the dying, had no idea what the real differences were between Red and White; they just were one.

There was no meaningful difference between Lancaster and York.

Sometime in the last couple of hundred years, Lancaster and York figured out that it's more profitable to have the peasants fight with votes instead of swords.  If my peasants defeat your peasants with swords, I can only plunder them once.  If my peasants defeat your peasants with votes, I can plunder your peasants every April 15.  Whee!

And all the bullshit about free speech and due process is just propaganda fed to the credulous to get them to sign onto Team Red and Team White.  What we're seeing is simply that the Rich have sufficiently brainwashed their peasantry that they no longer feel the need to pretend.  "Free Speech" and "Due Process" and "Civil Rights" and all that other shit are for the rich; the other 99% are simply a mindless rabble to be manipulated.

As it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever, world without end, amen.

"For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil."

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041164My only disagreement is that it's not "the far left."  It's the rich.

Not entirely.  It IS the Far Left and the Rich are PART of it, because it suits them, but it's nothing more than a Puritanical movement, claiming that their women are more pure than those over there.  The problem is thatthe Rich are big enough to keep this going, they never were, what they have to do is fool the little people into thinking that their side is the RIGHT side (Or is that LEFT side...) and social media, heavily controlled by the upper class (not entirely in the 1% but in the 10%) keeps promoting this addictive need to be seen to be on the right side of history.  To make sure your tribe stays on top.

Sure.  The Rich are ALSO part of the Far Right.  And everything else.

As Sam Vimes says, "Follow the money."

Yeah, history has shown what happens with Rich Team Left gets into power.

Right Team Right is just everyday business. I personally don't have a problem with people being "rich". It's a murky standard. Anyone making over 35k is in the top 1% of the world. I do pretty well myself, and I earned every goddamn nickel of it. There is no political standard I'll accept where someone else gets to decide that I have "too much" because others simply don't.

It's the host of control that goes with that kind of thinking. The faux moral superiority that proclaims that you can be denounced, silenced, judged, prosecuted, and executed by people who have come to believe they're entitled to do so.

It IS about being far on the Left. This thread exists for that very reason. What I do know is that I am a gaming-whale. I vote with my dollars liberally. I don't buy just a book. I'll buy whole lines if I like them, and buy more for my friends. So when I see stuff like this happen, it becomes my signal to vote with my money accordingly.

"For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil."

And like a good leftist, Timothy got killed trying to censure people.

Talk is cheaper than money.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041170Sure.  The Rich are ALSO part of the Far Right.  And everything else.

As Sam Vimes says, "Follow the money."

I'm not gonna disagree rich-assholes are everywhere. The issue is which asshole is currently winking at you right now?

Doesn't matter.  Thinking that the Rich who pretend to be on either side give a shit about anything other than themselves is a mistake.  It's all pantomime and shadow puppets.  George Bush I condemned Michael Dukakis for being a "card carrying ACLU member" so the notion that the Rich Right are in favor of civil liberties for anyone other than themselves is laughable.

The notion that any of the Rich care for anything is laughable.  Politics is an elaborate pantomime put on to distract the masses because it hurts long term revenue less than actual war.

All of which boils down to that Mr. Helton and ENWorld are now garbage for toeing a party line that destroyed another human being.

In the 80s the rich found it to their advantage to manipulate things such that the far right loonies were active.  Part of the fallout of that was the whole "D&D is satanic" bullshit.

Now the rich find it to their advantage go manipulate things such that the far left loonies are active.  Part of the fallout of that is the whole "Enworld" bullshit.

Wait twenty or thirty years, it'll go back the other way.

And twenty or thirty years after that, it'll go back the other other way.

Et cetera.