Quote from: CRKrueger;1038556How is that even a question?  Half-Elf...Boots of Elvenkind...the answer of course is anything with two legs, plus gynosphinxes and lamia.

Krueger, you are three times a gentleman. My top hat is off to you, sir.

Quote from: jeff37923;1038506So what was the major turning point to cause this to become important to gaming and important to SJWs?

After they successfully confounded "sex" the noun about biology with "gender" the noun about social constructs.

Control the language. Control the debate. 1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.

Quote from: Tod13;1038564After they successfully confounded "sex" the noun about biology with "gender" the noun about social constructs.

Control the language. Control the debate. 1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.

The term SJW is totally doubleplus Newspeak.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1038495So based on this data...in whom does Morty like to put his dick?

And herein lies the crux, or rather, crotch, of the matter.

IIRC there was hardly mention of ANY sexuality hetro, gay, bi or otherwise in RPGs back in the day.

Players and GM were always free to include it or ignore it as they chose.

And ultimately always will be.

I think what is resented is being TOLD that we HAVE to include it.

I simply don't like being told what to do.

I support LGBQT rights in the real world without reservation, but the next 5e game I run, the elves in my campaign will be largely uninterested in sex beyond rare procreation, dwarves will be fervently heterosexual (making up for the fact that their women are perceived as being masculine in appearence) and hobbits are too shy to talk about such matters.

Oh and Orcs are spawned from the earth as assexual monsters that have no genitalia making  half-orcs a mad bad demi-diety wizard's experiment.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1038567IIRC there was hardly mention of ANY sexuality hetro, gay, bi or otherwise in RPGs back in the day.

Players and GM were always free to include it or ignore it as they chose.

And ultimately always will be.

I think what is resented is being TOLD that we HAVE to include it.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here.  Who is TELLING you that you HAVE to include it?  Seriously, can you cite some examples, for comparison to old-school like my Temple of Elemental Evil examples.

Quote from: jhkim;1038572I'm not sure what you're talking about here.  Who is TELLING you that you HAVE to include it?  Seriously, can you cite some examples, for comparison to old-school like my Temple of Elemental Evil examples.

Anyone who decries RPGs as male only and not 'inclusive' enough.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1038574Anyone who decries RPGs as male only and not 'inclusive' enough.

Are we mixing topics here?  I was talking about gay characters in game books. Being male-only is a positive thing for gay inclusion.  

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Feh on gynosphinxes.

Quote from: jhkim;1038560As for the origin - I don't recall any significant liberal campaigns complaining about lack of gay characters in gaming material.

Wow, that must be the best example of selective amnesia.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1038512When people bought game books to read instead of using them for source material for playing the game?  I don't know; I got nothing.

Quote from: JRT;1038547People have been doing that since the little brown books were released.  It was probably rarer back then but I remember seeing both Ryan Dancy and Monte Cook comment that TSR/WoTC were aware of that audience and that was back around 3e's release.

This specific issue seems to have been linked to this particular decade, and it is more of a cultural thing...and it's mostly about Entertainment in general, not just gaming.

The issue seems to be audiences, especially younger audiences, want to crawl right into the skins of the characters they seen in books, movies, games, etc. Close third-person, with hot (in the literary sense) emotional proximity, has  become the default writing mode for any author who wants to reach readers under 40. The reason those same readers most often cite for rejecting novels written in the style of 30 or 60 years ago is they find them cold and un-engaging. If they can't get right inside the emotional wheelhouse of the protagonist, they can't engage with the fiction.

I also think catering to an increasingly female audience plays a big part. Women, more than men, seem to want to a) know who the characters are romantically or sexually linked with, and b) play with various combinations of couplings. You see this in the slash fan fiction for all kinds of nerd properties, written almost exclusively by women. A lot of it features gay romance between characters who were not originally written as gay (Sherlock and Watson, Spock and Kirk, etc.) I don't know why so many nerdy women are fascinated by gay male coupling, but it seems to be a thing.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1038489Here, I think you dropped these: [ATTACH=CONFIG]2479[/ATTACH]

Ball bearings?

Fie to you, sir.  I bear my balls with grace, dignity, and pride.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1038586Ball bearings?

Fie to you, sir.  I bear my balls with grace, dignity, and pride.

This is what sets therpgsite apart from lesser forums. It is, at its heart, a collection of gentleman and ladies, dilettantes all, possessed of the highest caliber of social grace.

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Quote from: jhkim;1038560As for the origin - I don't recall any significant liberal campaigns complaining about lack of gay characters in gaming material.  Instead, I recall it becoming an issue when gay characters started appearing in game books, and conservative gamers complained that it was a problem - like Silas1066 saying that it is making games not family-friendly, and that the intrusion of gays and women is completely changing the game. The first instance I recall was in complaints about the Blue Rose RPG pushing a homosexual agenda.

Personally, I don't consider it all that significant. Presence or lack of gay characters doesn't figure into my purchasing decisions of game material. In this thread, I was reacting to other people's complaints about it - not bringing it up as an issue myself.

So this all started with Blue Rose? I remember the derision for the setting, but I don't recall complaints that it was pushing a "homosexual agenda". Do you have any links?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1038495Morty, Half Elf, Fighter 4, Magic User 3, HP 27, AC 3, +1 sword, Boots of Elvenkind, Potion of Undead Control, 29 GP, 34 SP
Morty can be found drinking at the Giant Lizard Tavern and will accompany adventurers on quests if promised a magic item as payment.

So based on this data...in whom does Morty like to put his dick?

Jessica.

Quote from: jeff37923;1038598So this all started with Blue Rose? I remember the derision for the setting, but I don't recall complaints that it was pushing a "homosexual agenda". Do you have any links?

Blue Rose was intended for a gay audience, and that's fine.

That is different from taking a game that didn't feature sex and romance as one of its core concepts, aka D&D, and introducing homosexuality and transgenderism into it, out of some effort to be "inclusive". No one ever said gays couldn't create their own adventures, PCs, whatever. D&D had been around for decades before this became an "issue".

I think we have to remember that not everyone is down with homosexuality. Many people have an objection to it on either religious grounds (mainstream Christians and Muslims alike reject it), or ideological/philosophical. That doesn't mean they are out to persecute gays, or even deny them the ability to marry, but they aren't going to tacitly accept the gay lifestyle, and they don't feel any need to "include" something they object to in their activities.

A lot of people likewise believe that transgenderism is a mental health issue, not an identity issue. I'm not going to debate that here, but I will point out that LBG doesn't belong with "T" --those are different issues entirely, and have spoken with gay men that don't like the "T" to be included. Not all gays are leftist Democrats that embrace postmodernism, etc. Some are a lot more centrist or practical in their thinking.

So why is this important? Because gay issues are controversial, polarizing, and don't belong in a mainstream RPG game that has been traditionally directed towards teens and even younger kids. You can say I am being to rigid or conservative here, but that is what I think on this matter. It belongs outside the game.

Well whaddaya know, ELCA Lutherans, Episcopalians, and United Methodists aren't "mainstream Christians."

As my sister says, "Who knew?"