Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1037937From my point of view, the tragic irony is that most of these people, or their intellectual and spiritual forbears, have spent the past half-century trying to dismiss, denigrate and demolish nearly every conceivable curb on sexual desire ... and are now acting shocked at the current state of affairs.

  Hosea 8:7. See also Humanae Vitae.

There are lots of places in the world more sexually liberal than North America, and they aren't wracked with this hysteria around harassment. And I'd wager that on the sexually active spectrum, most people going to gaming conventions are closer to the inactive end than they are to the highly active end. Seems more likely it's their inexperience and anxiety around normal sexual flirting behaviour that's responsible for these incidents than some kind of unbridled promiscuity.

Believing someone when they say they were harassed does not mean you march the accused the the gallows and Hang them on the spot. If means you take their claim seriously as if it were true. At a Con, yiu do an investigation and if it looks like it might be true, you remove the accused from the convention. In a larger company with a real HR department, basically the same with administrative leave (paid) used if the accusation seems plausible at all.

In the case of the article in question, it looks like it was bounced a few times and the accused was informed and asked for their opinion before it was published. Journalists (and that is a pretty sweeping word for amateurs posting on the web)are likely to be even more terrible at it than Rolling Stone was.

So all the slippery slope arguments above are not reasonable. No one is perfect, woman or man, but this is not cry for immediate firing squads, this is a cry for so,e reasonable action to be taken.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1038000Believing someone when they say they were harassed does not mean you march the accused the the gallows and Hang them on the spot. If means you take their claim seriously as if it were true. At a Con, yiu do an investigation and if it looks like it might be true, you remove the accused from the convention. In a larger company with a real HR department, basically the same with administrative leave (paid) used if the accusation seems plausible at all.

In the case of the article in question, it looks like it was bounced a few times and the accused was informed and asked for their opinion before it was published. Journalists (and that is a pretty sweeping word for amateurs posting on the web)are likely to be even more terrible at it than Rolling Stone was.

So all the slippery slope arguments above are not reasonable. No one is perfect, woman or man, but this is not cry for immediate firing squads, this is a cry for so,e reasonable action to be taken.

But that's exactly what is happening, so I don't understand your "slippery slope" comment.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1038000Believing someone when they say they were harassed does not mean you march the accused the the gallows and Hang them on the spot.

This is what the normies want, though.  Maybe not physically killing them, but definitely socially and professionally.

Quote from: Brad;1038039But that's exactly what is happening, so I don't understand your "slippery slope" comment.

Didn't see this, but exactly.

Quote from: Myrdin Potter;1038000So all the slippery slope arguments above are not reasonable. No one is perfect, woman or man, but this is not cry for immediate firing squads, this is a cry for so,e reasonable action to be taken.

This is not reasonable.  But that's the way it is now.  Especially if you're a man.

Quote from: sureshot;1037931The sad part the same people in the hobby will in five to ten years time wonder why no men want to have women at their table. Pretend to wonder why no men want to talk to women at conventions, outside of them or in general. Pretend to wonder why men walk on eggshells around women all the time. While then using it as pure 1000% evidence that men hate women and are misogynistic etc.

There is an effort by women and homosexuals to essentially take over the hobby, and declare it as "their space--the safe space (for them)". This is done in the name of "inclusiveness", as if the game was ever non-inclusive.

Now not all women are doing this of course, just a minority of far-left activists.

But once the game publishers, conventions, and online entities begin to cater to the demands of women and homosexuals, it completely changes the hobby. This is reflected in the efforts of Jeremy Crawford and Mike Mearls to make D&D queer and transgender-friendly, by putting things into the rulebooks and supplements that push this ideology. Conventions routinely invite female gaming bloggers, who typically have few, if any, design or art credits to their names, to the shows. These women then hold seminars on feminism in gaming, white oppression, etc.

Beyond this, we have leftists like Hans Cummings, the submissions director for the Ennies, who openly admits that when a submission comes in from an author he isn't familiar with, he checks the social media of that author, and if he sees that the guy is a conservative, straight, etc., the submission goes right into the trash: the judges never see it. So the games that win Ennie Awards are gay friendly, feature women of color, etc.

Even Paizo feels the need to have a giant, full-color banner up at Origins that shows a black woman dressed as a Crusader-style knight (plate mail, etc.). While gamers can create any kind of character they want, this is just obvious signaling.

It is time to take the hobby back from radical activists. It's time to make it family-friendly again, and based on fantasy and adventure, not identity politics, teenage angst, gender confusion, and degeneracy.

And while I own the game, and think the design is quite good, even games like Lamentations of the Flame Princess are an issue: it is gindcore D&D with a splash of pornography. I'm not sure the OSR was intended as a springboard for torture porn, bondage, and cannibalism. Some of the people involved with that game are the same SJWs pushing the feminist agenda in gaming: it is almost like an attempt to desecrate D&D.

Quote from: Silas1066;1038202And while I own the game, and think the design is quite good, even games like Lamentations of the Flame Princess are an issue: it is gindcore D&D with a splash of pornography. I'm not sure the OSR was intended as a springboard for torture porn, bondage, and cannibalism. Some of the people involved with that game are the same SJWs pushing the feminist agenda in gaming: it is almost like an attempt to desecrate D&D.

Thank you for stating this. A number of the adventures are unnecessarily off-putting because of the extremities and DCC handles the same matters much more tastefully.

Quote from: Silas1066;1038202And while I own the game, and think the design is quite good, even games like Lamentations of the Flame Princess are an issue: it is gindcore D&D with a splash of pornography. I'm not sure the OSR was intended as a springboard for torture porn, bondage, and cannibalism. Some of the people involved with that game are the same SJWs pushing the feminist agenda in gaming: it is almost like an attempt to desecrate D&D.

Agreed 101%.  I just don't get the love for the game at all.

Quote from: Silas1066;1038202And while I own the game, and think the design is quite good, even games like Lamentations of the Flame Princess are an issue: it is gindcore D&D with a splash of pornography. I'm not sure the OSR was intended as a springboard for torture porn, bondage, and cannibalism. Some of the people involved with that game are the same SJWs pushing the feminist agenda in gaming: it is almost like an attempt to desecrate D&D.

Yep. There are a few scenarios that while I was reading I just thought, "good grief, give it a rest".

Quote from: Silas1066;1038202It's time to make it family-friendly again, and based on fantasy and adventure, not identity politics, teenage angst, gender confusion, and degeneracy.

I think you have a point here.

Quote from: Silas1066;1038202Beyond this, we have leftists like Hans Cummings, the submissions director for the Ennies, who openly admits that when a submission comes in from an author he isn't familiar with, he checks the social media of that author, and if he sees that the guy is a conservative, straight, etc., the submission goes right into the trash: the judges never see it.

  Documentation, please? This is such an overt and outrageous statement that I have trouble wrapping my head around it.

Quote from: Silas1066;1038202But once the game publishers, conventions, and online entities begin to cater to the demands of women and homosexuals, it completely changes the hobby. This is reflected in the efforts of Jeremy Crawford and Mike Mearls to make D&D queer and transgender-friendly, by putting things into the rulebooks and supplements that push this ideology. Conventions routinely invite female gaming bloggers, who typically have few, if any, design or art credits to their names, to the shows. These women then hold seminars on feminism in gaming, white oppression, etc.

Quote from: Silas1066;1038202And while I own the game, and think the design is quite good, even games like Lamentations of the Flame Princess are an issue: it is gindcore D&D with a splash of pornography. I'm not sure the OSR was intended as a springboard for torture porn, bondage, and cannibalism. Some of the people involved with that game are the same SJWs pushing the feminist agenda in gaming: it is almost like an attempt to desecrate D&D.

This is a load of crap.

D&D should be for all of women, homosexuals, men, and heterosexuals. D&D wasn't ruined for women back in the days when it was only catering to men, and it isn't ruined for men now by sometimes catering to women. It's not just Jeremy Crawford and Mike Mearls - even RPGPundit fully endorsed putting in transgender-friendly statements into the D&D5 rulebooks. (ref)  If the existence of material for women and homosexuals ruins the game for you personally, that's your problem. The game plays just fine for me, even though my weekly group right now are all hetero men.

I'm not personally into Lamentations of the Flame Princess, and I like family-friendly game material - but other people enjoy it. It doesn't hurt my D&D if they want to play their other games - and I think it is a crock of shit to think that your game is "desecrated" by other people playing Lamentations.

Quote from: Silas1066;1038202And while I own the game, and think the design is quite good, even games like Lamentations of the Flame Princess are an issue: it is gindcore D&D with a splash of pornography. I'm not sure the OSR was intended as a springboard for torture porn, bondage, and cannibalism. Some of the people involved with that game are the same SJWs pushing the feminist agenda in gaming...

I don't think they are the same SJWs, no. Regular sex-hating SJWs are very hostile to Zak Sabbath, James Raggi et al. I'm not saying those guys aren't a bunch of filthy degenerate pornographer feminist commie pinko liberals - and Mandy Morbid does a bunch of Youtube stuff in the WoTC orbit - but they are definitely not the same group as the RPG industry's SJW Red Guard cadre.

Quote from: jhkim;1038234This is a load of crap.

I would say that inclusiveness works both ways.

Quote from: jhkim;1038234This is a load of crap.

D&D should be for all of women, homosexuals, men, and heterosexuals. D&D wasn't ruined for women back in the days when it was only catering to men, and it isn't ruined for men now by sometimes catering to women. It's not just Jeremy Crawford and Mike Mearls - even RPGPundit fully endorsed putting in transgender-friendly statements into the D&D5 rulebooks. (ref)  If the existence of material for women and homosexuals ruins the game for you personally, that's your problem. The game plays just fine for me, even though my weekly group right now are all hetero men.

I'm curious. Do you think that D&D before the inclusionary language was de-facto *exclusionary* for not specifying inclusive language for LGBT+ crowd? If so on the basis of what? Because by that logic then D&D will always be exclusionary to someone. This is the fun part of the ideology that conflates the importance of the small over the large without context or presumption of intention to be actually exclusionary.

What this does is turn the endeavor itself into a game of meta-politics. It becomes enslaved by the projections of those whose feelings can never be assuaged because of their own self-loathing that is married to the narcissism of self-entitlement merely by appearance.

This has become true of almost *everything* today. To what end? <----there is the real question.

I like to use a simple litmus test to show how this is purely arbitrary sentiment. Why isn't there inclusionary language for Left-Handed People? Why is there not more representation of Left Handed characters in the artwork? Or in movies? Or in books (unironically - as I'm writing about that now), or where is the restitution for my Left-Handed brothers and sisters that have been historically murdered for merely wanting to do things with their ass-wiping hand?

You *might* laugh (I do) - but yet everything I'm saying is true. And the only reason it's not taken seriously is because enough people aren't whining about it. Why do you think that is?

Quote from: jhkim;1038234D&D should be for all of women, homosexuals, men, and heterosexuals.

Why?

Quote from: Silas1066;1038202There is an effort by women and homosexuals to essentially take over the hobby, and declare it as "their space--the safe space (for them)". This is done in the name of "inclusiveness", as if the game was ever non-inclusive.

Now not all women are doing this of course, just a minority of far-left activists.

But once the game publishers, conventions, and online entities begin to cater to the demands of women and homosexuals, it completely changes the hobby. This is reflected in the efforts of Jeremy Crawford and Mike Mearls to make D&D queer and transgender-friendly, by putting things into the rulebooks and supplements that push this ideology. Conventions routinely invite female gaming bloggers, who typically have few, if any, design or art credits to their names, to the shows. These women then hold seminars on feminism in gaming, white oppression, etc.

Beyond this, we have leftists like Hans Cummings, the submissions director for the Ennies, who openly admits that when a submission comes in from an author he isn't familiar with, he checks the social media of that author, and if he sees that the guy is a conservative, straight, etc., the submission goes right into the trash: the judges never see it. So the games that win Ennie Awards are gay friendly, feature women of color, etc.

Even Paizo feels the need to have a giant, full-color banner up at Origins that shows a black woman dressed as a Crusader-style knight (plate mail, etc.). While gamers can create any kind of character they want, this is just obvious signaling.

It is time to take the hobby back from radical activists. It's time to make it family-friendly again, and based on fantasy and adventure, not identity politics, teenage angst, gender confusion, and degeneracy.

And while I own the game, and think the design is quite good, even games like Lamentations of the Flame Princess are an issue: it is gindcore D&D with a splash of pornography. I'm not sure the OSR was intended as a springboard for torture porn, bondage, and cannibalism. Some of the people involved with that game are the same SJWs pushing the feminist agenda in gaming: it is almost like an attempt to desecrate D&D.

I'm going to call bullshit.

The ttRPG industry can't be exclusionary because RPGs are relatively cheap to make and rules can't be the subject of a copyright.

You may get pushed out of your favorite brands like D&D, but there is still older editions and other games to play. You may have to teach people to play the game you like, but it isn't impossible.

Paizo is a good example of a company getting worse and worse as their forums become echo chambers due to terrible moderation and 2e looks like a hot dumpster fire of bad ideas that no one said no to. And of course, the SJW crowd still hates Paizo because marketing to that crowd is stupid. They don't spend much money and enjoy outrage more than gaming, all reaching out to them will ever net a company is being on their hit list.

So no, I don't think the SJWs are going to ruin RPGs, they may ruin your favorite RPG, but I know that I already have enough stuff that the industry could be gone tomorrow and I would be fine.