+5 Bonus vs. Advantage. Which do you prefer?

Psikerlord · May 04, 2018, 05:42:52 AM

Quote from: happyhermit;1037445Most of the "experienced gamers" that I know (including myself) had a time when they were into all kinds of crunchy, math-y, highly detailed rulesets, but these days are no longer looking for that. I might find the need to run something like that again at some point, but right now... nope.

Oh dont get me wrong, I dont want shadowrun level modifiers. Just a few 1 - 3 point mods for little things, saving adv/disad for big modifiers. It's easy enough for me to add back. I just think it was a mistake to take it out. It's there in AC. It's there in DCs. Why not combat.

Christopher Brady · May 04, 2018, 05:52:38 AM

Quote from: David Johansen;1037440I really hate the advantage / disadvantage mechanism in D&D as it makes mass rolling combat virtually impossible. I can't just pick up 10d20 and roll for the orcs attacking the elves all at once. D&D should be able to run huge fights but designers always throw in these obstacles. I don't like multiple dice for damage either. I know it's not a wargame but it could and should be able to run Warhammer scale battles just as fast or faster than Warhammer and it's silly to completely ignore that potential for the sake of a crappy gimmick.

If you're using modern D&D for mass battles of armies, I think that's your issue, the basic combat system is not built for that anymore.

Steven Mitchell · May 04, 2018, 08:42:56 AM

Quote from: happyhermit;1037445Most of the "experienced gamers" that I know (including myself) had a time when they were into all kinds of crunchy, math-y, highly detailed rulesets, but these days are no longer looking for that. I might find the need to run something like that again at some point, but right now... nope.

That, plus my experience has taught me that running for large numbers of beginners and social gamers, that simplification on their end is much appreciated. There are many gamers--maybe even a majority--that never really get out of that bucket when it comes to mechanics. Rather, their long experience runs to doing a better job getting into the character and thinking about what happens in the world and other aspects of playing a role in the game. I've got some that have stayed in that category for decades at a time.

estar · May 04, 2018, 09:23:05 AM

Quote from: vgunn;1037142I know Advantage/Disadvantage is the bee's-knees, but what about a +5 modifier instead?

So you have roll 2d20 and keep highest (or lowest) or Roll 1d20 and add +5.

Is one better than the other?

With the former the maximum you can get is a 20 (or the minimum of 1)

With the latter you can roll up to a 25.

This has a major impact on the design of modifiers and targets. It far easier to keep a lid on maximum modifiers with advantage and disadvantage than it is with straight bonuses. Plus the psychology of player "getting it" is far superior with advantage and disadvantage.

The price is that you have one modifier and that is to roll an extra d20 and see what happens. So if you want the detail you are not going to get it with advantage and disadvantage.

estar · May 04, 2018, 09:24:43 AM

Quote from: David Johansen;1037440I really hate the advantage / disadvantage mechanism in D&D as it makes mass rolling combat virtually impossible. I can't just pick up 10d20 and roll for the orcs attacking the elves all at once.

I don't have trouble rolling 20d20 and looking at pairs of dice.

Or

Roll 10d20 look at the rolls

Roll 10d20 again look at the rolls the same way and pick the higher of the two.

Or

Keep a table of the impact of advantage/disadvantage has at different odds and just apply it as a modifier.

By far the fastest way of resolving X guys hitting at Y odds is to roll 2d6 or 3d6 and treat as a binomial distribution.

I keep this chart in my files.

David Johansen · May 04, 2018, 09:28:38 AM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1037479If you're using modern D&D for mass battles of armies, I think that's your issue, the basic combat system is not built for that anymore.

Sadly, it's the only context the core concepts of the system work in. I've always hated D&D. I've run a lot of it. It's likely I've run more in the last six years than I did in junior high.. Playing wargames eventually helped me to see something worthwhile in there, a game where mighty heroes and legions can clash without so much as a scale shift. It's still mostly there in AD&D where you get "no. appearing 20 - 200 orcs" and such like. But the designers always want to move it away from that capacity to make it a "better" roleplaying game. At least fifth edition remembered that it's supposed have fast combat, still too much hunt and peck for endless lists of special abilities though.

RPGPundit · May 06, 2018, 11:03:13 PM

Advantage/Disadvantage is much, much easier, which is in many circumstances a good thing, though not all.

Krimson · May 06, 2018, 11:05:47 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;1037841Advantage/Disadvantage is much, much easier, which is in many circumstances a good thing, though not all.

The main "Advantage" to using it is speed. It saves time having to look up tables.

vgunn · May 07, 2018, 01:30:07 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit;1037841Advantage/Disadvantage is much, much easier, which is in many circumstances a good thing, though not all.

It definitely streamlines some things!

RPGPundit · May 08, 2018, 03:15:06 AM

Quote from: Krimson;1037843The main "Advantage" to using it is speed. It saves time having to look up tables.

Well yeah, but that's a big advantage, especially for newbie GMs.