Quote from: Big Andy;1035090Since we touched on Korrúkka, the delightfully lazy shady Priest of Ksarul from Lords of Tsamra and Okkuru, the shifty former slave/translator from Flamesong, and since Harry Anderson (who in his youth was a street magician/con artist) just died made me think of it, could an out and out con artist work in the Five Empires? Could you pull of scams like from The Sting or selling some rube the Golden Gate Bridge to Avanthar or similar? Not just with regards to legalities, but with regards to Noble Action.

Yes, it's possible!!! See also the on-going career of one Harchar of the Clan of the Blazoned Sail. Or the number of times in Phil's games where we'd be in Jakalla and a new player would be offered the chance to buy the Missuma River bridge. Or the even more common times where somebody would try to palm off a fake Eye, amulet, Secret Book, etc. to a player. This sort of thing happens all the time, which is why you normally deal with people that your clan regularly does business with. Heck, the number of 'reliable contractors' that besieged the Glorious General when he got his legion command was truly astonishing, and it took a while to separate the honest ones from the 'less honest' ones made for some really fun gaming.

There are no 'legalities' involved; the Imperium's position is that if you try to cheat it, it'll hunt you down and kill you as an object lesson for everyone else. Anybody else, if you can get away with it shame on the people gullible enough to fall for your con. Of course, their clan and relations may come after you with nasty consequences; but that's the risks of being in that line of work. 'Noble action' does come into it; it's a noble action to cheat somebody who's a crook in the first place, for example, or get your losses back by conning the con artist. Of conning somebody your clan is at feud with; the general attitude is that if they're dumb enough or credulous enough to fall for it, they deserve it.

'Noble Action' also comes into play with those who are unable to defend themselves. One is reminded of an elderly widow who was cheated out of a piece of property, and we players were recruited as part of an elaborate scam to get it back for her. (We faked an invasion, pretty successfully.) I can also think of an incident where a professional gambler took unfair advantage of a young lord, and the other local professionals set up a scam to teach him a lesson - quite like "The Sting", actually. You get and keep a good reputation by being 'noble' and not picking on those who can't help themselves.

Does this help?

News from the front!

The daughter is now entirely out, and the game room is getting ready for the coming weekend's game. Supplies have been bought, fridges stocked, and I'm looking forward to the very first ever D & D game to be played in my game room. Big doings, and lots of entertainment.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1035566News from the front!

The daughter is now entirely out, and the game room is getting ready for the coming weekend's game. Supplies have been bought, fridges stocked, and I'm looking forward to the very first ever D & D game to be played in my game room. Big doings, and lots of entertainment.

Excellent.  I hope it is much fun.

Uncle,

I don't think we have gone into this yet. Could you tell us a bit about how sailors would navigate the oceans of Tekumel?
Are there differences between the way humans and Hluss(due to the nature of their ships)would do so? I skimmed the sourcebook and Naval Warfare pdf, but I did not see anything. However, I may have missed something. Thank you in advance.

H:0)

Are accurate clocks, moon charts and coastal mapping critical?
Without stars, how is sailing out of sight of land done "safely"?
=

I don't remember much sailing out of sight of land.  As Chirine has mentioned many times, the oceans of Tekumel are extremely dangerous.  I do recall that at least most water travel was pretty much hugging the coast.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1035585Excellent.  I hope it is much fun.

I hope so, too. This is kind of the last throw of the dice for local gaming for me, as all of my previous out-reach efforts have been pretty much a waste of time. I'll do the 'public appearance' at Free RPG Day, and that may very well become my only outing locally. We shall see.

Quote from: Hrugga;1035629Uncle,

I don't think we have gone into this yet. Could you tell us a bit about how sailors would navigate the oceans of Tekumel?
Are there differences between the way humans and Hluss(due to the nature of their ships)would do so? I skimmed the sourcebook and Naval Warfare pdf, but I did not see anything. However, I may have missed something. Thank you in advance.

H:0)

Ah. You need to read my article on Tekumelyani astronomy, which covers the mathematics needed for both astrology and navigation. It appeared in my 'zine, The Journal of Tekumel Affairs, in the middle '80s. It was also reprinted in The Best of the Journals, as well.

However, since I doubt anyone in the known universe has a copy of either...

This question actually came up in Phil's campaign, asked by Dave Arneson. Phil had checked to see if Harchar had the 'astronomer - navigator' skill, Dave did, and Phil flopped his brand new medieval Arabic astrolabe down in front of him and challenged him to a demonstration of how to use it. He did. As was usual in these situations. The Two Wise Men then had a very learned and obscure discussion on this very subject that ended with Yours Truly being told to Figure It Out And Come Back With An Answer Next Week. ("Gee, thanks, guys.") So I sat down with some of Phil's astrology and astronomy texts and did indeed work out how to do the job.

It's all pretty basic orbital mechanics, and not a heap of complicated number-crunching. If I may summarize, we know a fixed 'start date' for where the planets are in our system, and we can calculate where they will be in the skies at any given point in time. Since folks have been doing this on Tekumel for a very long time - see also the Maya - we have a book (an ephemeris) which gives us the planetary positions for given latitudes; we also know when we'll see planetrise/zenith/planetset, so we can also get a pretty good 'fix' on latitude as well. The Tekumelyani don't use maps and charts per se, but there are more books (called rutters, in Europe) with the navigational information you need.

May I suggest a couple of books on this subject that are on my gaming shelf:

https://www.amazon.com/English-Channel-Nigel-Calder/dp/0140101314
https://www.amazon.com/Longitude-Genius-Greatest-Scientific-Problem/dp/080271529X

What we are using is the method that Terran navigators abandoned when accurate chronometers were invented. One hauls out one's astrolabe, preferably while at anchor, takes some sightings, and looks up the data in the book.

All pretty straightforward, if one is intending to get killed; normally, one tries to avoid the very hostile denizens of the oceans by doing one's sailing in the shallower coastal waters. For which you have a rutter or a pilot, of course. Deep-water sailing is for the Hlyss and Harchar...

Quote from: Greentongue;1035668Are accurate clocks, moon charts and coastal mapping critical?
Without stars, how is sailing out of sight of land done "safely"?
=

No. You have a pilot or a rutter for coastal voyages; an astrolabe and an ephemeris for the very rare times you might want to go deep-water sailing.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1035673I don't remember much sailing out of sight of land.  As Chirine has mentioned many times, the oceans of Tekumel are extremely dangerous.  I do recall that at least most water travel was pretty much hugging the coast.

Correct. Which was why Harchar's southerly course out of Jakalla on the first day of our first voyage with him was was so bloody damn alarming to me; I don't know if anyone else noticed. :eek:

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1035744Ah. You need to read my article on Tekumelyani astronomy, which covers the mathematics needed for both astrology and navigation. It appeared in my 'zine, The Journal of Tekumel Affairs, in the middle '80s. It was also reprinted in The Best of the Journals, as well.

However, since I doubt anyone in the known universe has a copy of either...

This question actually came up in Phil's campaign, asked by Dave Arneson. Phil had checked to see if Harchar had the 'astronomer - navigator' skill, Dave did, and Phil flopped his brand new medieval Arabic astrolabe down in front of him and challenged him to a demonstration of how to use it. He did. As was usual in these situations. The Two Wise Men then had a very learned and obscure discussion on this very subject that ended with Yours Truly being told to Figure It Out And Come Back With An Answer Next Week. ("Gee, thanks, guys.") So I sat down with some of Phil's astrology and astronomy texts and did indeed work out how to do the job.

It's all pretty basic orbital mechanics, and not a heap of complicated number-crunching. If I may summarize, we know a fixed 'start date' for where the planets are in our system, and we can calculate where they will be in the skies at any given point in time. Since folks have been doing this on Tekumel for a very long time - see also the Maya - we have a book (an ephemeris) which gives us the planetary positions for given latitudes; we also know when we'll see planetrise/zenith/planetset, so we can also get a pretty good 'fix' on latitude as well. The Tekumelyani don't use maps and charts per se, but there are more books (called rutters, in Europe) with the navigational information you need.

May I suggest a couple of books on this subject that are on my gaming shelf:

https://www.amazon.com/English-Channel-Nigel-Calder/dp/0140101314
https://www.amazon.com/Longitude-Genius-Greatest-Scientific-Problem/dp/080271529X

What we are using is the method that Terran navigators abandoned when accurate chronometers were invented. One hauls out one's astrolabe, preferably while at anchor, takes some sightings, and looks up the data in the book.

All pretty straightforward, if one is intending to get killed; normally, one tries to avoid the very hostile denizens of the oceans by doing one's sailing in the shallower coastal waters. For which you have a rutter or a pilot, of course. Deep-water sailing is for the Hlyss and Harchar...

Uncle. Thank you. I am guessing that not much is known about Hlyss sailing techniques...?

H:0)

Quote from: Hrugga;1035935Uncle. Thank you. I am guessing that not much is known about Hlyss sailing techniques...?

H:0)

About all we have is observed data. They have what amount to 'motor vessels', and ignore most sea conditions. Their large ships are pretty stable platforms, and they do have the same tools and data that we do, so I think it's be safe to assume that they use the same navigational methods that we do. They are very much 'blue water' / 'deep ocean' sailors, and about all they do with coastal sailing is the usual raiding and piracy. They only seem to come ashore in their islands, and I don't know of anyone who got a look at their ports and lived. Been inland a couple of times, but we were not all that interested in the local scene at that point in time...

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1035943About all we have is observed data. They have what amount to 'motor vessels', and ignore most sea conditions. Their large ships are pretty stable platforms, and they do have the same tools and data that we do, so I think it's be safe to assume that they use the same navigational methods that we do. They are very much 'blue water' / 'deep ocean' sailors, and about all they do with coastal sailing is the usual raiding and piracy. They only seem to come ashore in their islands, and I don't know of anyone who got a look at their ports and lived. Been inland a couple of times, but we were not all that interested in the local scene at that point in time...

Chirine,

When you were inland (presumably on Hlyssuyal) do you remember if the Hlyss kept human slaves, for other than incubating their young?
How far inland do they typically go when on a raid? A kilometre or so?
Finally, are they able to swim ( I think I recall you stating that they sink like a stone, I just can't remember if this is actually so)?

Shemek

Quote from: Shemek hiTankolel;1036277Chirine,

When you were inland (presumably on Hlyssuyal) do you remember if the Hlyss kept human slaves, for other than incubating their young?
How far inland do they typically go when on a raid? A kilometre or so?
Finally, are they able to swim ( I think I recall you stating that they sink like a stone, I just can't remember if this is actually so)?

Shemek

Didn't see any, but then we were not very keen on exploring the place as the locals were after us. I don't think they do, from what Phil mentioned in passing.

Yeah, about that. They're not very much into long marches, and they really seem to prefer quick snatch-and-grab raids. Their nest ships have smaller boats that can dock in the larger ship, and they tend to use these as 'landing craft'. These are rowed, and not propelled like the nest ships are.

Not really; they can thrash around a lot for a little while, but that's about it. I've seen them with a sort of harness with inflated chitin 'water wings' to keep them afloat for more time, but they are just lousy swimmers. (Which is fine by me, thank you very much.)

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1036397Didn't see any, but then we were not very keen on exploring the place as the locals were after us. I don't think they do, from what Phil mentioned in passing.

Yeah, about that. They're not very much into long marches, and they really seem to prefer quick snatch-and-grab raids. Their nest ships have smaller boats that can dock in the larger ship, and they tend to use these as 'landing craft'. These are rowed, and not propelled like the nest ships are.

Not really; they can thrash around a lot for a little while, but that's about it. I've seen them with a sort of harness with inflated chitin 'water wings' to keep them afloat for more time, but they are just lousy swimmers. (Which is fine by me, thank you very much.)

Thanks Chirine!