Quote from: joriandrake;1014332In an earlier post in this thread I tried to be as clear as possible why that rule/idea is terrible and dangerous.

All of which I agreed with.

My point, however, is that my physical characteristics do not match my PC's physical characteristics, so why should what I can/can't do affect what my PC can/can't do.

In the same way, I can't speak Cantonese, but my PC might know how to, so should my speaking a phrase in Cantonese influence how well my PC speaks Cantonese?

Quote from: soltakss;1014345All of which I agreed with.

My point, however, is that my physical characteristics do not match my PC's physical characteristics, so why should what I can/can't do affect what my PC can/can't do.

In the same way, I can't speak Cantonese, but my PC might know how to, so should my speaking a phrase in Cantonese influence how well my PC speaks Cantonese?

Fully agree on this one. It's also true for mental examples or charisma. Just as no one should be expected to cast real spells to provide an example for their mage character no one should expect a player to be an EU or UN diplomat and skilled orator if their character is great in persuasion/diplomacy. (this example is the biggest recurring issue I met during my time as player/GM which many loved to argue against and I also see it discussed in this forum)

We just have to accept that many players create characters which have characteristics or skills they themselves do not have (otherwise it wouldn't even be roleplaying), simply because they want to experience what it is like to play as characters which are good at those. There will be players who want characters good at swinging from tree to tree or running while they sit in a wheelchair, or have a character which is a negotiator and ambassador while in real life the player stutters and has terrible social skills. No one would ask a mute player to sing for her bard character either. Sure, how you say things should matter but it should be considered a modifier to the skills of the character and the 'diplo roll', and not the other way around (as the main result of the player's ability, with the actual char skill only as a modifier)

The idea that a player should act out things like drowning is also extremely dangerous, even if for some reason the player offers this suggestion (and then it should be declined by the GM and fellow players)

Quote from: soltakss;1014330I have asthma, my PC doesn't. I am not physically well-developed, my PC has CON 18.

Generally, I am completely against this kind of ruling, unless I am proving that something is possible in a game.

Sorry read my post more carefully.

How are you going to tell the GM what your charcter is doing under water, while you the player are holding your breath.

You can't talk with out breathing.

Quote from: Headless;1014365Sorry read my post more carefully.

How are you going to tell the GM what your charcter is doing under water, while you the player are holding your breath.

You can't talk with out breathing.

Yes. We know you are being a dick.

Its just that some of us with lung damage or other breathing problems find it anything but funny.

GURPS Basic pg. 351. Not only does GURPS handle things like this best, but also with some semblance of balance between real-life and a game.

Not coincidentally, these rules mimic everything Bren said...  

Quote from: Omega;1014569Yes. We know you are being a dick.

Its just that some of us with lung damage or other breathing problems find it anything but funny.

Others of us find it frickin' hilarious.

The only RIGHT way to do this is to buy "The Complete Breath-Holder" from Gronan Press, 473 pages of rules about holding your breath, only $57.95

Quote from: Omega;1014569Yes. We know you are being a dick.

Its just that some of us with lung damage or other breathing problems find it anything but funny.

I find fighting underwater absurd.  So I find the fact that we need complicated or simple rules for holding breath absurd.  

It sucks if you have trouble breathing.

Quote from: Headless;1014619I find fighting underwater absurd.  So I find the fact that we need complicated or simple rules for holding breath absurd.  

It sucks if you have trouble breathing.

Not so sure, a true James Bond flick needs at least one underwater combat scene.   I can see a lot of use for, have made use of, underwater combat.  Basically get free of your attacker or drown...

Quote from: Headless;1014619I find fighting underwater absurd.

1. even in reality it can happen (sharks, crocodiles, human divers, soldiers,ect)
2. the setting for most world includes humanoids who fight underwater, cast underwater, or can flood rooms with magic
3. The discussion in this thread is about which rules are 'best' for holding breath, which means it also has to be affected by underwater combat (in case some rules don't consider modifiers due to underwater combat, then those rules just aren't the best)

If in reality people train for underwater situations I don't see why in RPGs it shouldn't be discussed, trained for, or used. There are even underwater combat medics, if you think underwater combat is absurd what do you think of underwater first aid or surgery? In America SFUO training happens at Key West as far I remember, British and Russian forces train for it too. Heck, even Hungarian forces do despite having only rivers and no sea access. Even some martial arts schools have underwater training to teach students how fighting gets different due to water. These are all real, so why wouldn't as example in a fantasy setting soldiers near a shore with sea monsters or of a nation fighting water magic casters train and/or fight underwater?

Discussing things like how choking or punching someone underwater and how that affects calculation for holding breath is very much on topic for this thread, and not absurd at all. Even if you yourself don't intend to ever have underwater combat it might still happen, or you may have to rescue someone else for which thesecalculations can be very useful.

I'm very interested in what rules others use and might use some of those later as well.

Sure.  All of the is true.  I still find it absurd.

Quote from: Headless;1014675Sure.  All of the is true.  I still find it absurd.

Then perhaps this is the wrong thread for you.

Quote from: Bren;1014705Then perhaps this is the wrong thread for you.

But he still needs to buy "The Complete Breath-Holder."

Quote from: Bren;1014705Then perhaps this is the wrong thread for you.

If you're allowed to discuss rules for breath holding in excruciating detail.  I am allowed to say its silly.  

Which I wasn't forced to do until someone accused me of being ableist.  

Our hobby is silly.  Silly things need to be taken very seriously, so thank you all for posting rules.  But its important to remember thats its silly.

Quote from: Headless;1014927I am allowed to say its silly.

Sure you are, but do you have to keep repeating yourself...repeating yourself...repeating yourself....