Quote from: Skarg;1014152I think he was writing about D&D

Yeah, I was thinking D&D or similar cinematic/heroic game like d6 Star Wars or Savage Worlds. I can't really imagine a Call of Cthulu or T:2000 PC trying this. The player in the OP clearly thinks they're in a cinematic universe - if that's not the case then there is a big disconnect up front.

Yeah there's a "Negotiator" at a table I used to play at.  Always trying to accomplish something with the minimum amount of danger, hedging bets, trying to suss out what the GM will let him get away with, always trying to get maximum effect with no penalties (like suppressive fire to kill while doing acrobatics all with no penalties in a single action).

The GM never reins him in, so that's why I say "used to play at".

A lot of players want some very cinematic scenes/events to happen, especially if they just want an 'epic' character introduction for a new group or as a recent addition to the party. This is more likely if their characters (or even pnp playing) is heavily inspired by a movie.

I don't remember how I handled this myself, but I'm pretty sure I was more understanding. I just wrote about a pirate themed campaign in Grove's weather thread so I just recalled that years after I had that game I found the RPG 7th Sea which had some good advice/system to handle these, but at that time my Caribbean campaign was already over.

No one was trying to constantly do this with me though, so I didn't have to consider what to do if a player always had attempted 'movie scenes'. Usually players were just happy to have a nice intro scene for their characters then leave it at that. I understand one might get annoyed by the very idea of such a scene, but if you keep it in check there can be very nice ones similar to the Four/3 Musketeer battles with many improvised weapons used, while keeping purely to base mechanics a game system might not be able to handle fluid combat which is a requirement for such events.

I also allow myself to sometimes describe a critical hit/death blow in a similar scene as well no matter what system is used, usually for the enjoyement for all players. That however is my choice as GM, which shouldn't affect the option for player characters to start such scenes on their own (IMHO). It's a different question that all such scenes/actions come with a certain risk which the player/character have to accept. Even the most epic battle scene can turn into a funny one if your musketeer falls off the chandelier or accidentally swing out of the window.

I have a player who is very fond of extreme anime style stunts for his characters. Fortunately he builds characters with the stats and skills to back it up. This does sometimes leave him lacking in other areas, but that's the price you pay.

It also helps to be clear about the desired tone of the game. Is it serious gritty realism or larger than life action?

Quote from: Skarg;1014152I think he was writing about D&D, and I'm a simulationist GM writing about GURPS, while I take it you're a WoD GM.[...]

This was a Void game. You're right I'm a WOD GM but, to the surprise of apparently a lot of people, I do and have GM'd many other games alongside my bread and butter.

Quote from: DavetheLost;1014141That's a check for the Acrobatics, probably at a high difficulty to account for drawing and firing guns in mid-tumble.
No roll needed for the shooting. It's suppressive fire in the middle of an acrobatic leap/roll/tumble it automatically misses, does not hit anything of consequence.

Everyone else around reacts to the fire as appropriate. Mooks duck for cover, made guys make a coolness check to return fire.

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding here about what happened. It seems like Kruger was the only one who caught it. This dude was trying to make an actual normal attack without penalty but was trying to word away what he was doing as though the GM wouldn't notice and somehow calculate everything in the ethereal. I then corrected his ass by making it an actual attack type that fit what he was doing but was totally NOT what he wanted. This is a TERRIBLE trait to have as a player. This is bad behavior: you don't reward it, period.

Quote from: S'mon;1014165Well I've not played Vampire, but I hear a lot about "Trenchcoats & Katanas", right? PCs are supposed to have superhuman reflexes?

DC - well thinking 5e D&D, if it's well outside what characters are normally expected I'd likely set it at Acrobatics DC 25 - Very Hard. Most characters will probably fail, but a high level Rogue with Acrobatics Expertise could have +17 on the check (+5 DEX 20, +12 expertise with Proficiency +6 at level 17-20) making it quite doable. IME, like I said, if I tell the player "OK, but DC 25 Acrobatics" I get a lot less arguing than if I'd just said no. I will say no sometimes, if the rules clearly say it can't be done, but I would rather eg grant an Athletics check for the STR 10 PC to attempt a 15' long jump than just ban it & refer to the 5e Jump rules that limit him to 10'.
The highest 5e DC I ever set was 27, for a history check to know some extremely obscure info about the Runelords of Varisia. Player looked a bit gobsmacked that that was I think higher than she could roll (INT 20 (+5) with no History prof I expect), but I don't think it was unfair. I don't check their sheets before checking DCs. A really good historian might have made the check.

>>what is with the poor GM'ing thing on me with you right now?<<

Well you seem quite full of yourself while boasting about bad/mean treatment of your players. I guess it rubs me the wrong way a bit. I have visions of a bunch of Vampire Goths - you and your groupies - tormenting some poor newbie for some imagined offence.
Usually when people say "My players suck..." they have some detailed horror story most people can agree is bad. I don't see that with you.

Plus, I have had a really bad week.

Awwwh. 'Hope this week coming up for you is better, dude!

Yeah, the trenchcoat katana thing is a thing. It's a holdover from the Matrix/Underworld era and its an aesthetic and gameplay style that's always remained, even though it doesn't fit NWOD. PCs/NPC's run around in a permenant outfit of black sunglasses, shirts, pants/trousers, long overcoats and some kind of large weapon or two on their back, perpetually leaping around shooting and cutting shit up and generally acting like a jackasses.

A lot of Vampires have some level of a vampiric power named Celerity. This is super speed and reflexes in one package. This is not standard though, a lot of other vampires don't have this. It's just one of several basic Disciplines (name for the powers) any vampire can have.

Your jump example is reasonable about the gap. This was not that. This was a player trying to run game on the GM and was a disingenuous attempt to do next-level shit at the expense of the other players who were playing normally and being respectful of the system mechanics.

Hah hah, groupies would make this thing whole lot more fun. Alas, I'm just dealing with guys and girls who want an actual proper game and not have it devolve into inane shite as happens in every other game a nerd wants to play.

I'm just me. I don't boast, I just keep it real. And I never have problems with newbies, it's ALWAYS the experienced players that give me hassle (you'd think it'd be the other way 'round). My club wouldn't get the reviews it has if I was horrible to newbies (and trust me, there's a lot!), hah hah.

Quote from: joriandrake;1014214This is more likely if their characters (or even pnp playing) is heavily inspired by a movie.[...]

I favor a cinematic approach albeit grounded. Grounded Cinematic, I guess. This didn't have anything to do with being cinematic at any level. Again:

"This was not that. This was a player trying to run game on the GM and was a disingenuous attempt to do next-level shit at the expense of the other players who were playing normally and being respectful of the system mechanics."

That's why A ended up getting shot at by B. Gun-waving hopping guys with guns are dangerous, especially when they're endangering everyone else. It made sense RP-wise but it doubled as a clear message to A to take a seat.

Quote from: DavetheLost;1014228I have a player who is very fond of extreme anime style stunts for his characters. Fortunately he builds characters with the stats and skills to back it up. This does sometimes leave him lacking in other areas, but that's the price you pay.

It also helps to be clear about the desired tone of the game. Is it serious gritty realism or larger than life action?

Void is a hard sci-fi game set nearly two centuries into the future from present-day.  Intersystem travel is a thing, artificial gravity is a constant presence (so funnnnn!), shooting without aiming in ships is a bad idea due to opening yourself to vacuum. Michael Ealy in Almost Human is not quite yet a thing although bots from Deus Ex Invisible War are a thing (and will down your char in seconds flat). There's also some elder god shit running around at the far reaches of Sol but I downplayed that aspect since it just made the game COC in Deep Space (and the game's too action-y/intrigue-y for that bullshit).

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1014287This dude was trying to make an actual normal attack without penalty but was trying to word away what he was doing as though the GM wouldn't notice and somehow calculate everything in the ethereal.

This does sound bad/annoying, at least if he didn't immediately accept GM ruling, and reminds me of my own spell-negotiator player.

Then yes, I also misunderstood the situation.

QuoteIt's a holdover from the Matrix/Underworld era and its an aesthetic and gameplay style that's always remained, even though it doesn't fit NWOD. PCs/NPC's run around in a permenant outfit of black sunglasses, shirts, pants/trousers, long overcoats and some kind of large weapon or two on their back, perpetually leaping around shooting and cutting shit up and generally acting like a jackasses.

I remember that at least since 1993 this was a thing, and not just in the Masquerade. Two of my friends even in real bought and wore black leather (trench)coats or such, and I think it had more to do with the Highlander than anything else. Black sunglasses were probably due to the influene of Terminator. Celerity/Potence/Fortitude/Presence were usually the powers used for cinematic scenes and for 'looking like a badass vampire'.

So I have to disagree on the Matrix/Underworld thing as it existed before those, and while Matrix indeed had its fans in our group (and they pushed the use of Celerity badly for 'bullet time') Underworld only had mixed effect on us as a group of Hungarian players. We respected the series for using bits of Hungarian lore and how most of it was filmed in Hungary with the extras also being hired here (not to mention how finally vampire history wasn't about Romania that exists since Bram Stoker), but vampires dating/mixing with werewolves was not something our hardcore VTM players could accept. Twilight with its sparkles made the situation even worse as a player who had for 14 years a character with a romance like that decided to kill his own char off for starting to hate it due to movies, although at that time we already rarely played together and most of the players were different.

Trench Coats and Katans was fun!