Disruptive behaviors

Gronan of Simmerya · December 15, 2017, 12:31:04 PM

Or have the PLAYERS fight to the death!

Xanther · December 15, 2017, 12:34:52 PM

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;10137531) For every ten seconds of debate roll a wandering monster check. For the second check in a row use two dice. For the third roll three dice.

2) Play with grownups.

3) See 1.

I'm saying number 2. If grown-up players want to play and are bored they are not going to do all this sort of passive-aggressive disruptive and rude behavior. They speak up in a congenial manner, you are all friends after all. If they don't want to play they are not going to pretend to play, then just back-out on it.

I'm still going with these players are young, and have way too much time on their hands. I haven't had time to waste to hang out for hours and hours being bored since I was in my teens.

Xanther · December 15, 2017, 12:35:36 PM

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1013943Or have the PLAYERS fight to the death!

Now that only works if you can legally place bets on it. Remember what happens at game-night stays at game-night.

Skarg · December 15, 2017, 12:35:48 PM

Or have them split into two groups: the ones who agree on something to do, and those who want to discuss more.

Run two groups, or one... (e.g. start with the group that agree what to do, have a session with them where they do it, then have them mention to those still planning that they've done the thing).

Gronan of Simmerya · December 15, 2017, 12:43:45 PM

That's one place where having a dungeon is brilliant. "While you clowns were dicking around arguing for four sessions, the other group cleaned out the first level and half of the second. They're all third or fourth level now and you haven't even left the inn."

S'mon · December 15, 2017, 02:55:11 PM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1013726What structures and what kind of people?

I know it's possible, in THEORY, since I've heard tons of stories about huge D&D groups in ye olden days.

Well, I'm doing a megadungeon-centred 'expedition' campaign where every session is a Delve, PCs always start & end Back In Town. This is excellent for maintaining focus and Getting Things Done. Plus I have a co-GM running the dungeons around the next village over, together we can accommodate around 12-14 players I guess (6-8 to me, 4-6 to him)

S'mon · December 15, 2017, 03:02:47 PM

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;10137531) For every ten seconds of debate roll a wandering monster check. For the second check in a row use two dice. For the third roll three dice.

No need to be an asshole about it. IME just rolling the wandering monster die every real 10-20 minutes as per (Pre-3e) D&D standard is enough - SOME players will see the die being rolled, understand the significance, and force the others to get moving.

S'mon · December 15, 2017, 03:06:23 PM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1013758There IS a player willing to put his foot down, who in-character is in the best position to be leader, but he's also the one who the party doesn't want to follow half the time. It usually goes like this:

Party: Hey, we need to defeat this dragon. Let's go to his lair and scope him out.
Lone Player: No, you fools! That'll get us all killed! Let's travel three weeks down south and find the orc tribe, then forge a letter pretending its the dragon threatening the orcs, deliver it to the orcs, convince them the dragon wants them dead, then set the orcs loose on the dragon! Then we'll be safe and everything will work out!
Party: But that's so much more impossible and complicated. Why can't we just go check out the dragon?
Lone Player: No, it's genius! You guys are going to get us all killed.
> 4 hours of arguing later
Lone Player's Rival: Whatever! I'm kicking down the door and we're going in! I don't care if we die! I just want to do something!
Lone Player: Fine! Don't blame me when we all die! I'll come but I want no part of this. I warned you!

As for rolling random encounters, I do that when it seems realistic (ie, the timing I'd normally roll it) but wouldn't it feel unrealistic if monsters magically appear every time they stand around? Maybe I could structure the environment so it makes sense in-game.

But yeah, as you can see, the character who'd be the "in character" leader would be the one they always buck heads with. So if it was an out of character decision instead, then there's the question of how it makes sense in-game.

I think what you guys are telling me is I should me meddling more directly in the game flow as GM, calling for votes, and then when the vote is game forcing the game down that direction. That or pointing to the caller and telling him to announce his decision after X time.

The sad part is, I had a chance to test what the dynamics are one session when said player was not there. Do you know what people did? They decided to wait for him to be back next session and actually did even less because they didn't know where to go or what to do or that it wasn't in-character to take charge.

So despite all of the friction he actually ends up being the one moving things along in the end because he's so stubborn everyone just defaults to his idea after enough arguing.

Ugh. I've seen a Lone Player like this, but with a bit more charisma, totally destroy a campaign.
My advice would be you need to seriously clamp down on him, to the point of possibly booting him from the group.
Weirdly enough, he would probably be fine in a solo campaign where you could run with his weirdness. But these guys are toxic to a regular group.

Headless · December 15, 2017, 04:11:32 PM

Quote from: S'mon;1013985Ugh. I've seen a Lone Player like this, but with a bit more charisma, totally destroy a campaign.
My advice would be you need to seriously clamp down on him, to the point of possibly booting him from the group.
Weirdly enough, he would probably be fine in a solo campaign where you could run with his weirdness. But these guys are toxic to a regular group.

Even though he's right? Even though his hairbrained skeams will work, acording to the DM? Who is the best judge/ultimate arbiter.

S'mon · December 15, 2017, 04:13:21 PM

Quote from: Headless;1014008Even though he's right? Even though his hairbrained skeams will work, acording to the DM? Who is the best judge/ultimate arbiter.

Well I get the impression his schemes work because he is an OOC dominant personality overbearing the GM's weaker/more pleasant personality, not because they were really great in-world.
But even if he is a competent schemer, yes, he is dysfunctional with that group.

Headless · December 15, 2017, 04:19:42 PM

You read the part where he didn't show the rest of the party didn't do anything at all.

But the group is dysfunctional.

S'mon · December 15, 2017, 05:26:55 PM

Quote from: Headless;1014015You read the part where he didn't show the rest of the party didn't do anything at all.

Because they were afraid of what he would say/do when he came back.

EOTB · December 15, 2017, 05:40:55 PM

A GM has to either be:

1. the most dominant personality in the room (relative to the other participants, which may not be all that dominant in an absolute sense), or;

2. have total buy-in and cooperation/support from those of more dominant personalities than they.

Or else things go off the rails.

S'mon · December 15, 2017, 07:13:20 PM

Quote from: EOTB;1014040A GM has to either be:

1. the most dominant personality in the room (relative to the other participants, which may not be all that dominant in an absolute sense), or;

2. have total buy-in and cooperation/support from those of more dominant personalities than they.

Or else things go off the rails.

I love being the player in a #2 group, with a friend GMing who all of us like and trust. Conversely #1s with a GM more Viking Hatted than I can be scary :eek: - I recall one ex-military (RAF I think) NCO type guy running Primeval Thule, who kinda terrified the rest of us geeks... He was keen on Political Correctness, and tore a strip off me when my male barbarian PC said "Woman!" to a female Fighter PC he was exasperated with.
Then the GM's house burned down. :\

mAcular Chaotic · December 15, 2017, 09:33:08 PM

Quote from: Xanther;1013942How old are your players? This is pretty adolescent-like behavior, although I have observed even people in their 30's act this way...some never grow out of it. You could have their characters settle it with combat, a fight to the death.

We're all 30, been friends since we were like 3.

I didn't say the lone player was right because his ideas worked, he was just right that charging in blindly was suicide, even though his own ideas are often crazy.