It just seems perfect. I will be upfront, I hated levels and alignments since 1977.  So anything that is classless and absent levels is great. Static hit points. Skills that only go up based on use. It seems pretty adaptable. Why isn't it more wide spread?

Quote from: Thanos;1011697It just seems perfect. I will be upfront, I hated levels and alignments since 1977.  So anything that is classless and absent levels is great. Static hit points. Skills that only go up based on use. It seems pretty adaptable. Why isn't it more wide spread?

Well I don't know if you consider Call of Cthulhu and RuneQuest a type of BRP but I get the impression they are pretty well known. Of course nothing compared to D&D but then nothing really is...

Quote from: CanBeOnlyOne;1011702Well I don't know if you consider Call of Cthulhu and RuneQuest a type of BRP but I get the impression they are pretty well known. Of course nothing compared to D&D but then nothing really is...

Actually Call of Cthulhu probably rivals D&D for recognition. Probably helped by the Arkham Horror board game which was still in print till just recently.

I loved Runequest back in the old days when it was simpler.
I get I could have just continued using that, but then Mongoose took over and I got Mongoose Runequest 1 and all the Elric/.Stormbringer supplements.
It started getting more complicated and clunky, but I persevered, because I liked the core of the system.

It became quite obvious very fast MRQ1 was a total mess/disaster and they dumped that for MRQ2, which was a lot better, and I enjoyed it for a bit, but there were aspects of it that were really clunky and the charging rules were a mess.

Then they dropped that and reprinted as Legend....
Meanwhile some other company bought the license and it branched again and has a couple of times again since.

Honestly, I'm just sick and tired of all the branching versions and it's just too clunky and slow for me anyway.

The upside is I've dug out my 2nd Ed Stormbringer RPG and I'm currently trying to get some ppl interested in play that... That's the RQ sweetspot for me.

The way RQ is (or whatever it's called now) atm, it simply doesn't interest me.. Too slow, too clunky, It just doesn't flow very well.
I have lots of old RQ stuff, mostly specific to Elric/Stormbringer stuff from 2nd ed, so I'll use that if I can get players for it.

A fair question. I think if you take it in the narrow way you asked it (i.e., about the BRP system, rather than the various BRP family of games) there is a good answer: They landed in a kind of uncanny valley between a truly generic system (like GURPS) and a distinctive, flavorful, but setting specific system (like Runequest, Pendragon or Ars Magica). The end result doesn't really satisfy people looking for either thing, and so it can't compete in the crowded marketplace of hundreds and hundreds of published game systems we have to chose from.

I think the greatest structural weakness of BRP is its magic system, which is basically lifted from spirit magic for Runequest, with almost no growth in the spell list over decades. Runequest spirit magic is great for Runequest, but provides a very narrow view of what magic can be in a fantasy system. It is pretty frustrating to try running a fantasy world with medieval alchemists or necromancers or some other juicy magical archetype and find your spell list doesn't really support anything beyond bumping up the damage for a mace, etc.

One reason BRP seems a lot less widespread than D&D is because Runequest, Basic Role -Playing,  Call of Cthulhu, Stormbringer, Worlds of Wonder (including Superworld and Magic World), Elfquest, Hawkmoon, Ringworld are each labeled as a different game though they share very, very similar systems whereas the many iterations of D&D, some of which are not very similar to some other version, are all labeled Dungeons & Dragons.

For me, BRP hits the sweet spot.  It's adaptable, simple for players to grasp, characters are detailed yet play is smooth.  It is also geared towards grittier less gonzo play styles, which suits me.  I like most of the updates with Mythras, except that I find BRP combat simpler.

If I have a complaint it is that it is not really ready to play out of the box, unless you play CoC, or Stormbringer or one of the other published adaptations. When I run BRP, I usually spend quite a bit of time adapting the system to the world.  I will say that I find it more intuitive to adapt than GURPS, even if there are fewer tools in the box.

I think one reason that it is less popular is that it comes off as a bit dry.  

Quote from: Larsdangly;1011707I think the greatest structural weakness of BRP is its magic system, which is basically lifted from spirit magic for Runequest, with almost no growth in the spell list over decades. Runequest spirit magic is great for Runequest, but provides a very narrow view of what magic can be in a fantasy system. It is pretty frustrating to try running a fantasy world with medieval alchemists or necromancers or some other juicy magical archetype and find your spell list doesn't really support anything beyond bumping up the damage for a mace, etc.

I also agree with this.  There are a lot of magic systems for BRP between different games, but there are few spells in each, and not much unity between them. If I have a player who want's to play a wizard, as GM world/system builder, I've got my work cut out for me with BRP.

Some might also say that a lack of a boons and flaws, or ads/disads, system is a weakness.  BRP is great for playing humans at human power levels, but lacks structure for kewl powers and such.

I don't know. I like it okay; I'd be happy to play it in various incarnations, preferably Pendragon, Super World, or Call of Cthulhu, but it does come across as rather bland in the actual BRP book (The Big Gold Book) and I personally find RuneQuest/BRP combat a bit overcomplicated  when compared to the intuitive skills rules. Are we sure it's unpopular? Compared to what?

(I own far  more Chaosium games/books than TSR games/books, so I guess it's popular enough in my house.)

Well, there's the 20% and 5% calculations for special and critical successes.  I'm afraid for many that's impossible without a calculator.  There's the inconsistent implementation between systems.  The big gold book is wonderful but it's also dense, intimidating, and a bit ugly.  But if I had to make a serious guess it's the very low starting skills in RQ2 echoing down through the ages.  That game where you've got 15% to hit with a club.

RQ seemed to be a bigger hit in England than in the US. Outside of CoC, RQ didn't have the same distro in my neck of the woods, especially compared to D&D of course which was available in toy stores, etc.

Simply BRP isn't a game, it is a house system used for lots of games which individually are not always recognized as "BRP". It has also spun off numerous variants both licensed and compatible look alikes.


"BRP" games currently on the market:

Deluxe BRP - Chaosium (aka the Big Gold Book or the tool box). Honestly this is a terrible presentation of the system for the inexperienced. It is great resource for a GM but dry and not really newbie friendly. Tool kit is an apt description as it is about as exciting as looking for a 9/16 socket.

Runequest - Chaosium (the original Glorantha based game slightly tweaked from the original, still pending publication so changes not completely known).

Runequest Classic - Chaosium (2nd edition, aka "the real RQ" reprinted with errata corrections)

Mythras - The Design Mechanism (aka Runequest 6) Essentially the "directors cut" of Mongoose RQ

Legend - Mongoose (aka Mongoose RQ2)

Magic World - Chaosium, a simplified fantasy variant of the BRP rules (pdf only once the print run is depleted).

Call of Cthulhu - Chaosium, a simplified horror variant of the BRP rules.

Cthulhu Dark Ages - Chaosium, fantasy variant of CoC.

Openquest - D101 Games, a simplified variant of BRP rules with the serial numbers filed off (exists thanks to the Mongoose SRD).

The Company - D101 Games, modern combat game based on Openquest

River of Heaven - D101 Games, Sci fi based on Openquest

Renaissance - Cakebread & Walton, a historical / fantasy game system based on Openquest.

Clockwork & Chivalry - Cakebread & Walton, a steampunk game based on the Renaissance game system.

Pirates and Dragons - Cakebread & Walton, a fantasy pirate game based on the Renaissance game system.



I'm sure I've missed a few. Looks pretty popular to me, but this also gets to dansemacabre's point. Some are turned off by the seemingly endless branches of the family. In reality probably no worse than the dofferences between say GURPS (no optional rules) and GURPS (all optional rules) but lacks the uniformity of being under one roof.

I always felt like the ideal system for a Conan game is Runequest where you strip out the magic and replace it with the sanity and magic from CoC. Which is trivial to do...

Because most people don't like those things.  To most gamers the things you think make it perfect, they hate.

What are the major differences between Magic World vs. RQ 2e?

Also, what's the major differences between Magic World and OpenQuest?

Quote from: David Johansen;1011726But if I had to make a serious guess it's the very low starting skills in RQ2 echoing down through the ages.

Agreed. I love Stormbringer (3rd by Ken St. Andre, Games Workshop hardcover), but even there I've had players complain about the low skill numbers.

But even RQ2 had the option for a pre-game experience to ramp up skills. AKA, the class that wasn't a class.  

However, I think the big problem with BRP is the slow combat and the squishy-ness of even experienced PCs.

Quote from: Thanos;1011697It just seems perfect. I will be upfront, I hated levels and alignments since 1977.  So anything that is classless and absent levels is great. Static hit points. Skills that only go up based on use. It seems pretty adaptable. Why isn't it more wide spread?

Most people like classes, levels, and inflating hit points?