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(D&D 5e) Is it better for 1st level PCs to be able to reach 2nd level in one session?

Started by S'mon, November 15, 2017, 05:04:26 AM

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saskganesh

#45
November 20, 2017, 10:06:57 PM
I've played a lot of grindy low level games that never went anywhere, so zipping up to level 2 seems quite refreshing. I don't think it would break anything.

Doom

#46
November 20, 2017, 10:38:48 PM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1008566Is the problem with 1st level in 5e the HPs or the PC's abilities?



It has more to do with the monsters hitting a bit too hard. A pair of kobolds attacking a character, for example, would see each kobold having about a 9% chance of landing a crit...and a crit from a kobold has a decent chance of dealing 11 damage--a serious problem for most level 1 characters. Now throw in that the kobolds probably have a better than 50% chance of hitting, and you start to see the problem here.

Granted not all monsters have pack tactics, but it's hardly a rare ability for small/weak monsters to have.
(taken during hurricane winds)

A nice education blog.

S'mon

#47
November 21, 2017, 04:00:21 AM Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 04:05:14 AM by S'mon
Quote from: Doom;1008709It has more to do with the monsters hitting a bit too hard. A pair of kobolds attacking a character, for example, would see each kobold having about a 9% chance of landing a crit...and a crit from a kobold has a decent chance of dealing 11 damage--a serious problem for most level 1 characters. Now throw in that the kobolds probably have a better than 50% chance of hitting, and you start to see the problem here.

Granted not all monsters have pack tactics, but it's hardly a rare ability for small/weak monsters to have.

I agree about kobolds - in 5e they die really easy but hit really hard with pack tactics - crit is 2d4+2 though, so no 11s. The group has fought 3 groups of kobolds so far; in the first battle they ambushed kobold maintenance workers and were really surprised when 2 PCs went down in the first round to kobold slings.

The group have 2 high-AC dwarf Clerics and that has been very handy for maintaining a strong front line.

S'mon

#48
November 21, 2017, 04:03:33 AM
Quote from: Willie the Duck;1008692Stealing from the party gets double dangerous (to hurt feelings) in gp=xp games. Not causing any friction?

Not noticeably, I feel a bit queasy about it but the new players seemed ok. The cat girl is pretty much the dominant PC, she takes point, spots & disarms the traps, finds the secret doors et al, so you could argue she earned it. The player is leaving in January so it'll be interesting to see how they do when she's gone.

S'mon

#49
November 21, 2017, 04:09:48 AM
Quote from: danskmacabre;1008696I've been running DnD 5e since it was first released and in my experience character generally level after 1 session.
Not always, but most of the time. It just depends on how well they do and how many players there are.
They have always levelled up in no more than 2 sessions from 1st level though.

Yes, even with 7 PCs now, 20% monster XP plus xp-for-gp & missing out on the big score, the 2 1st levellers are still at over 200 XP I believe and should level up in their 2nd session. Meanwhile PCs who hit 3rd level will be there awhile.

I guess it's fine given the way 5e is constructed. I like 4e's approach where PCs start out tough (roughly equivalent to 3rd in 5e) and level up more slowly, I'm not so keen on those OD&D campaigns where PCs start with 2 hp, die at 0, and take umpteen sessions to level.

Omega

#50
November 21, 2017, 08:05:58 AM
Quote from: S'mon;1008728Not noticeably, I feel a bit queasy about it but the new players seemed ok. The cat girl is pretty much the dominant PC, she takes point, spots & disarms the traps, finds the secret doors et al, so you could argue she earned it. The player is leaving in January so it'll be interesting to see how they do when she's gone.

Personal note here. Mixing 5e with gold for exp can have a certain unbalancing effect if you do it without thought or certain adjustments.

The main one is to keep in mind that the average NPC and monster in 5e has just short of nothing on them unless they are officers or leaders. Its all stashed at the groups lair/base/home/whatever. Your average CR 0-4 individual might have a few copper or silver on them. (about 1gp worth) Your CR 5-10s will have a bit more on them, about 20gp worth of silver or sometimes a 50+gp. and so on. But pin down where they reside and the PCs can rake in anywhere from on average 50 to as much as 350 GP as well as a possible magic item or two. Usually potions and the like.

Opaopajr

#51
November 21, 2017, 08:49:26 AM
Quote from: Omega;1008749Personal note here. Mixing 5e with gold for exp can have a certain unbalancing effect if you do it without thought or certain adjustments.

The main one is to keep in mind that the average NPC and monster in 5e has just short of nothing on them unless they are officers or leaders. Its all stashed at the groups lair/base/home/whatever. Your average CR 0-4 individual might have a few copper or silver on them. (about 1gp worth) Your CR 5-10s will have a bit more on them, about 20gp worth of silver or sometimes a 50+gp. and so on. But pin down where they reside and the PCs can rake in anywhere from on average 50 to as much as 350 GP as well as a possible magic item or two. Usually potions and the like.

Huh, that's more reminiscent of the old skool aesthetic. It encourages combat avoidance AND dungeon crawling lairs for bigger loot prizes. That might be a fun re-play mode of 5e adventures. Screw your combat builds, bring your exploration and social on! It'd really up the value of a party of illusionists or enchanters as a start. ;)
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Willie the Duck

#52
November 21, 2017, 09:35:36 AM
Quote from: Opaopajr;1008755Huh, that's more reminiscent of the old skool aesthetic. It encourages combat avoidance AND dungeon crawling lairs for bigger loot prizes. That might be a fun re-play mode of 5e adventures. Screw your combat builds, bring your exploration and social on! It'd really up the value of a party of illusionists or enchanters as a start. ;)

And this is what I've been saying for a long time. 5e, while not the perfect merging of old and new school aesthetics is very easily focused into a very old-school experience.

mAcular Chaotic

#53
November 21, 2017, 09:37:34 AM
How much gold do you place? How do you decide?
Battle doesn\'t need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don\'t ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don\'t ask why I fight.

S'mon

#54
November 21, 2017, 10:30:56 AM
Quote from: Omega;1008749Personal note here. Mixing 5e with gold for exp can have a certain unbalancing effect if you do it without thought or certain adjustments.

The main one is to keep in mind that the average NPC and monster in 5e has just short of nothing on them unless they are officers or leaders. Its all stashed at the groups lair/base/home/whatever. Your average CR 0-4 individual might have a few copper or silver on them. (about 1gp worth) Your CR 5-10s will have a bit more on them, about 20gp worth of silver or sometimes a 50+gp. and so on. But pin down where they reside and the PCs can rake in anywhere from on average 50 to as much as 350 GP as well as a possible magic item or two. Usually potions and the like.

Yes - I'm running Stonehell in 5e; it's statted for Labyrinth Lord but the treasure distribution seems pretty similar to 5e default. At 20% monster xp kobolds are worth 5 xp and have typically 0.1 xp worth of cash. :D

fearsomepirate

#55
November 21, 2017, 10:34:50 AM
I do gold for XP, but I set the first level at 1250 xp, second at 2500 xp, third at 5000, and so on. That schedule should look familiar, as it's the AD&D Thief. I don't fiddle with the monster XP at all. It'll take you forever to level up by fighting random kobolds, so it's more important to find the big stash that the monsters are protecting.
Every time I think the Forgotten Realms can\'t be a dumber setting, I get proven to be an unimaginative idiot.

S'mon

#56
November 21, 2017, 10:38:26 AM
Quote from: Opaopajr;1008755Huh, that's more reminiscent of the old skool aesthetic. It encourages combat avoidance AND dungeon crawling lairs for bigger loot prizes. That might be a fun re-play mode of 5e adventures. Screw your combat builds, bring your exploration and social on! It'd really up the value of a party of illusionists or enchanters as a start. ;)

Yes, that's how I'm running it. So lots of exploration focused PCs. Most combats are attrition since they shorten the duration of the delve and PCs get xp for the gp they take out at the end of the delve.

Steven Mitchell

#57
November 21, 2017, 10:45:28 AM
Quote from: S'mon;1008771Yes, that's how I'm running it. So lots of exploration focused PCs. Most combats are attrition since they shorten the duration of the delve and PCs get xp for the gp they take out at the end of the delve.

The Evil GM in me wants to run a game similar to what you are doing, except it is XP for gold profit.  Makes every torch or lost arrow painful. :)

S'mon

#58
November 21, 2017, 10:57:44 AM
Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1008761How much gold do you place? How do you decide?

I like to use published material as-is whenever possible. I reduced treasure in a crypt complex in level 1A* only because I'd also reduced the number of undead there and changed the description to make it smaller/more cramped than written.  My rule of thumb is that I won't change stuff unless it's wrong by more than an order of magnitude, in which case I'll take a 0 off (or, rarely, add a 0 on).

*You can find it free at http://www.lulu.com/gb/en/shop/michael-curtis/stonehell-dungeon-preview-ebook/ebook/product-16061318.html

Overall rate of XP gain so far seems similar to or slightly slower than running an Adventure Path with XP for kills, but it feels like the group gets a lot more done in one delve than in chewing through a chapter of a Paizo AP book.

mAcular Chaotic

#59
November 21, 2017, 05:54:56 PM
Quote from: S'mon;1008776I like to use published material as-is whenever possible. I reduced treasure in a crypt complex in level 1A* only because I'd also reduced the number of undead there and changed the description to make it smaller/more cramped than written.  My rule of thumb is that I won't change stuff unless it's wrong by more than an order of magnitude, in which case I'll take a 0 off (or, rarely, add a 0 on).

*You can find it free at http://www.lulu.com/gb/en/shop/michael-curtis/stonehell-dungeon-preview-ebook/ebook/product-16061318.html

Overall rate of XP gain so far seems similar to or slightly slower than running an Adventure Path with XP for kills, but it feels like the group gets a lot more done in one delve than in chewing through a chapter of a Paizo AP book.

Do they gain experience for magic items? Or just selling them?
Battle doesn\'t need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don\'t ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don\'t ask why I fight.
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