Back on topic.

As a DM I have a index card with the EXP total.
Each session I tally up what all was done and gained and add that to the total. Its pretty simple and I can at a glance have an idea what level everyone is even without my notes on what level everyone is.

Though my favourite systems dont have levels or EXP. Gamma World and particularly Star Frontiers. In SF you get skill points you can put towards improving skills, learning new skills, or improving stats. Handed out at certain junction points in an adventure. Like 1 or 2 depending on what the players and PCs did or didnt.

I quite like the idea of using XP milestones, but most ppl I run DnD for strongly doNOT like it.
It feels like calculating XP after every session is one of those DnD "Sacred cows" for many people.

Quote from: danskmacabre;1002207I quite like the idea of using XP milestones, but most ppl I run DnD for strongly doNOT like it.
It feels like calculating XP after every session is one of those DnD "Sacred cows" for many people.

For myself, I went through a phase where characters leveled up after X sessions. It worked, but I found it very unsatisfying. I've since gone back to using XP, and am quite happy with it.

I know in my Classic D&D campaign, after the PCs hit Name level and needed 100-150,000 XP per level I eventually went over to ad hoc awards based off the recommended 1/5 of a level per session. So a lot like milestones. I mostly did this because I didn't want to be handing out stupid amounts of gold each session, the recommended approach. I did occasionally reality-check by calculating the XP to be sure I was in the right ballpark. I think I went to 5 times monster XP since the PCs were getting about 1/5 recommended gp.

Probably the best, even if I don't get to use it often.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1002185I have found the SAME group will have DIFFERENT answers depending on the game system. For instance, my old crew needed D&D levels to be cranking, but they couldn't care less about advancement in Traveller, Star Wars or Gamma World.

That matches my experience.  The same group that was quite happy with a modified Hero System advancement that used effectively big chunks of milestone XP (albeit relatively small numbers given the system), was unhappy using an almost identical copy of that milestone system in D&D.  After we talked it out, one of the players summed up their attitude as, "When we play D&D, we want to play D&D."  They have been, however, happy to accept "minor quests" as a supplement to their usual monster killing and treasure gathering efforts.  The minor quests work out to be about 20% of the XP gained, and satisfy my need to dangle a carrot for picking and goal and going after it.

Quote from: S'mon;1002217I know in my Classic D&D campaign, after the PCs hit Name level and needed 100-150,000 XP per level I eventually went over to ad hoc awards based off the recommended 1/5 of a level per session. So a lot like milestones. I mostly did this because I didn't want to be handing out stupid amounts of gold each session, the recommended approach. I did occasionally reality-check by calculating the XP to be sure I was in the right ballpark. I think I went to 5 times monster XP since the PCs were getting about 1/5 recommended gp.

My scheme is to reverse engineer xp awards by how many session I'd like the characters to progress. That gives me a baseline. I then divide that by sessions, and further subdivide that by encounters.
It gets kind of funky if I go for fast progression (Which I like) where a low level character may get more xp than a higer level one, but it averages out eventually.

Overall, I have been able to jump back and forth depending upon the assumptions of the game. So I'll do gp=xp with OSR games, monster challenge = xp for other WotCs, CP for accomplishments or successful sessions for GURPS, or whatever else the game suggests (to a point, as explained in a bit).

The two main methods in various D&Ds are simple-- xp for collecting loot and or killing things (quantifiable reflections of 'reward for success,' since those two things are the things the characters were assumed to want to be doing). 2e AD&D tried to add a touch of Runequest (I believe, right?) methodology in there for doing things as well (xp for a spellcaster casting a spells, a fighter for defeating HD worth of enemies, etc.). And I think those were good decisions for the games, at the times they were made, and (most importantly) as the default rules to be included with the books. I am of the opinion that all ttrpg game rules are those things that you need while you are learning to play (/GM) the game, and that as you get better, you end up needing codified rules less and less. At that point, any GM worth their salt ought to be able to be able to reasonably determine whether an party of PCs--doing whatever they end up deciding to be doing--is doing it well and whether they deserve a reward. But you don't need rules for that in the book.

There's no grand theory on any of this. The concept of 'leveling up' or gaining xp (or character points in point-buy games, etc.) is a completely arbitrary game device that was included in (some of) the earliest games for no real grander reason than people generally enjoy it, and kept there because, again, people generally enjoy it. There's no real reason it should be a thing. Plenty of games don't even have the advancement-tied-to-some-measure-of-success mechanic, and work great without(including games like Star Trek, and Metamorphosis Alpha where you really don't have a direct award other than new allies, things, money, etc., or Traveller, where you get new equipment and or the money to keep on travelling, but otherwise are mostly exchanging lifespan for skill points, with no direct correlation to in-adventure success).

What's a milestone?

I use experience points using a homebrew system that compares difficulty to ability, and/or hours and/or success tallies,  and/or GM discretion based on thinking about what the characters (NPCs too) have been doing and whether that would amount to them learning or developing abilities or not.

Because (as usual) I generally want the game to model a consistent game world where things happen consistently and make sense, more than I am interested in stories or gratifying addictions to continual substantial ability increase.

I do really like the idea that significant experiences should improve characters' relevant abilities significantly, but I am often questioning, experimenting, and reinventing ways to have that be satisfying and fun without inflating abilities too quickly, inconsistently, or excessively.

Quote from: Skarg;1002280What's a milestone?

There are variations on the idea, but keeping with the metaphor, they all involve some idea of there being a significant chunk of XP tied to reaching certain goals or achievements.  For example, you don't get XP for killing the gate orcs, the guard room orcs, the bridge orcs, and then the boss orc.  Or you don't get it for stealing their treasure.  Instead, you get a big chunk of XP (possibly based on all the orcs, possibly based on their treasure, possibly something else, more likely approximated and rounded), for "putting an end to the orc threat" or "succeeding in your orc-complex objective" or whatever.

It's very similar to quest rewards in this respect.  A true milestone system, however, is assigned when reaching some particular marker while pursuing a larger quest.  That is, stealing the treasure from the boss orc and/or routing them is in service to a large goal.  In effect, "XP for gold" is a kind of milestone variant that predates the wider concept.

Afaict a true milestone system is no xp, pcs level up at a certain point in the adventure or after x number sessions. Modern Paizo APs list points where the pcs are expected to level up.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1002285There are variations on the idea, but keeping with the metaphor, they all involve some idea of there being a significant chunk of XP tied to reaching certain goals or achievements.  For example, you don't get XP for killing the gate orcs, the guard room orcs, the bridge orcs, and then the boss orc.  Or you don't get it for stealing their treasure.  Instead, you get a big chunk of XP (possibly based on all the orcs, possibly based on their treasure, possibly something else, more likely approximated and rounded), for "putting an end to the orc threat" or "succeeding in your orc-complex objective" or whatever.

It's very similar to quest rewards in this respect.  A true milestone system, however, is assigned when reaching some particular marker while pursuing a larger quest.  That is, stealing the treasure from the boss orc and/or routing them is in service to a large goal.  In effect, "XP for gold" is a kind of milestone variant that predates the wider concept.

This is how I undesrtand it too. Adding that "personal milestones" also exist (see Keys in Lady Blackbird, or Personal Milestones in Marvel Heroic, for eg.)

Quote from: S'mon;1002288Afaict a true milestone system is no xp, pcs level up at a certain point in the adventure or after x number sessions. Modern Paizo APs list points where the pcs are expected to level up.

Is that significantly different from the GM keeping track and telling you when you have accumulated enough success (however it is measured) to have leveled up?

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1002303Is that significantly different from the GM keeping track and telling you when you have accumulated enough success (however it is measured) to have leveled up?

In the campaigns I've played where the GM told us when we levelled, I think it would not have mattered if she or he had kept a secret tally. If we're not told our XP it feels arbitrary.

Quote from: S'mon;1002314In the campaigns I've played where the GM told us when we levelled, I think it would not have mattered if she or he had kept a secret tally. If we're not told our XP it feels arbitrary.

Fair enough.
I fell that this topic is actually two topics, artificially conflated. There is
1) presentation of reward - whether the players have access to their reward status, how close they are to leveling, knowing when they did something to get reward, and whether rewards are broken down in to XP, character points, or a more nebulous, "you've accomplished enough to level" or some such. And
2) what you get rewarded for - gold, monsters defeated, self-defined objectives, story/adventure objectives, good roleplay, etc.