This was sparked by Dumarest's statement that he prefers Lynch's Dune to the book.

Of course the truism is that the book is always better than the movie. Usually but not always true I think.

Godard wrote that it was a mistake to adapt a great novel to film, better to adapt a mediocre book into a great film. There's a real grain of truth in that I think but some would take offense at the original books being called mediocre, perhaps just 'not great'?

One example that jumps immediately to mind are two King adaptations Carrie and The Shining. Particularly the latter. Perhaps it is because I came to both after the films but I found the The Shining too rambling as a novel and the ending of the book felt more like a bad Hollywood movie ending than the actual film ending. Carrie as a film is pretty much a note perfect horror film, the book isn't bad but a bit too clumsily written for my tastes.

On the other hand I liked the first half of the film version of It, but consider the film doomed to be inferior to the book because of the intensity of King's characterization, the grotesque psychosexual content of most of its horror set-pieces and the complexity of the novel's historical structure.

Any other examples y'all can think of where you prefer the film to the book?

Probably The Godfather, for me.

Good call! Never read the book as I heard it was disappointing.

Quote from: Voros;1002035Good call! Never read the book as I heard it was disappointing.

I enjoyed the book. There is a weird subplot in it involving a surgeon, but otherwise really good read in my opinion. I like Mario Puzo's writing style. The Sicilian isn't bad either. That said, I think most people would enjoy the movie more as its so iconic.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1001990Probably The Godfather, for me.

Along that line, I thought Goodfellas was better than Wiseguy (Wiseguy is still good and if you like Goodfellas, there is a lot of additional info, but the movie is unbelievably good).

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1002038I enjoyed the book. There is a weird subplot in it involving a surgeon, but otherwise really good read in my opinion. I like Mario Puzo's writing style. The Sicilian isn't bad either. That said, I think most people would enjoy the movie more as its so iconic.

The surgeon subplot is what I heard about. Sounds odd. May give it a try one day. I actually prefer Godfather II to I but both films are pretty great.

The same thing could probably be said of Serpico and Donnie Brasco. Thing is that all of those, except The Godfather, were non-fiction books.

I'd say that the books enhance the movies, though, or at least changes how you interpreted a scene. Like, how did Sonny know that Paulie had sold Don Corleone out? You get an answer in the book, but in the movie, you're left to wonder if Sonny is right or not.

Quote from: Voros;1002052The surgeon subplot is what I heard about. Sounds odd. May give it a try one day. I actually prefer Godfather II to I but both films are pretty great.

It is odd, but also kind of fits with what he was trying to do. The book places more emphasis on the religious and biblical themes and so the surgeon is sort of a counterpoint to the Godfather as God. If I remember he sort of presents himself as the new priesthood, and being able to adjust a woman in that way (as weird as it is) isn't completely random the way it may seem if someone just mentions that section of the book to you.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1002058The same thing could probably be said of Serpico and Donnie Brasco. Thing is that all of those, except The Godfather, were non-fiction books.

I'd say that the books enhance the movies, though, or at least changes how you interpreted a scene. Like, how did Sonny know that Paulie had sold Don Corleone out? You get an answer in the book, but in the movie, you're left to wonder if Sonny is right or not.

That is a good point. But I think Wiseguy is exceptional for crime non-fiction. I enjoyed the book Donnie Brasco as well, but not nearly as much as Wiseguy. Donnie Brasco the film far exceeds the book in my opinion. But Goodfellas only exceeds the book because the film is so exceptional.

I think the Godfather book also adds a lot to the Luca Brasi character and his importance in the film makes more sense when you understand him. He is a lot more mythic in the story.

A lot of those wiseguy non-fiction books aren't often written with much stylistic ambition though, more functional than literary.

There are great non-fiction books that would be difficult to turn into an equally great film, Nick Tosches' brilliant biography of Jerry Lee Lewis Hellfire for instance.

Scorsese has been trying to make Tosches' great Dino biography into a film, would love to see that but I have my doubts he can top the book.

Quote from: Voros;1002094A lot of those wiseguy non-fiction books aren't often written with much stylistic ambition though, more functional than literary.

There are great non-fiction books that would be difficult to turn into an equally great film, Nick Tosches' brilliant biography of Jerry Lee Lewis Hellfire for instance.

Scorsese has been trying to make Tosches' great Dino biography into a film, would love to see that but I have my doubts he can top the book.

My concerns are probably a lot more lowbrow than yours when judging books. I'm not too worried about stylistic ambition when I evaluate books in general (personally I prefer a simple and engaging style). With mafia non-fiction books I've read enough of them to know just how bad some can be, and how good some can be. The quality comes in from a lot of different things (the research, the way the research is put together to construct a narrative). I tend to judge them more how I would judge a history book (with history I am far more concerned with the writer's analysis of events, and the way they choose to present events when they write the narrative, than I am with their style). For that genre, Wiseguy is about as good as it gets in my opinion.

For sure, ambition to me means more than just prose style though, a clear and engaging writing style, well researched historical detail, insight, etc. T.J. English's Savage City, Jeff Guin's Manson or the WWII history Walking Since Daybreak would be examples to me. If Wiseguy is good in that way that's what I'm also looking for.

Trying to think of other movies I like better than the books they are adapted from... I know there are a couple. The Big Sleep and The Maltese Falcon, for sure. I'll have to look over my shelf and DVD collection.

I could list a few TV series I liked better than their source material....

Quote from: Voros;1002135For sure, ambition to me means more than just prose style though, a clear and engaging writing style, well researched historical detail, insight, etc. T.J. English's Savage City, Jeff Guin's Manson or the WWII history Walking Since Daybreak would be examples to me. If Wiseguy is good in that way that's what I'm also looking for.

For me when I think good history I think people like Carlo Ginzburg, Braudel and Hourani.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1002058The same thing could probably be said of Serpico and Donnie Brasco. Thing is that all of those, except The Godfather, were non-fiction books.
Like, how did Sonny know that Paulie had sold Don Corleone out? You get an answer in the book, but in the movie, you're left to wonder if Sonny is right or not.

No, in the movie it is later said in dialogue how Paulie did that. Its near the end of the movie and I am sure is one of Michael's speeches.

- Ed C.