Quote from: Rincewind1;9470451) Banning racists is not some terrible tool of Authoritarianism that'll crush all the free spirits, it's getting rid of the open fuckheads.

Jesus Christ are you naive.  Who defines the term racist?  How will it be applied?  Once you remove "Congress Shall Make No Law" you realize that they can make any law, right...RIGHT?  You actually think it will stop at Group X.  That's literally the stupidest thing I've ever seen you post.

Quote from: Rincewind1;947045And you think it's possible that terrible ideas will be rejected by the Sensible Common Man, because he is Sensible, and he will protest those ideas when he sees them.

Nope, people can and will be duped, and it's even easier to dupe them when you silence all open speech on something, because then speech will occur not in the open, but underground where it can fester and grow instead of being openly mocked and derided.  If we have a group of people in this country who openly support a fucktard like Spencer, then we need them out in the open, we need to debate them and expose them.  You will never have a chance at changing anyone's mind if you don't talk to them.  Wanting to silence someone only proves that you are afraid of them, and that lends strength to their beliefs and makes it easier for them to recruit people.

Quote from: Rincewind1;9470453) Newsflash - that happens either way, restriction of speech on whoever is opposed to power. And that's before you take into account that money can censor much more effectively than the state, by simply not giving a platform.

You're being ridiculously short-sighted if not blind.  There's an argument to be made about the Corporate Takeover of America and how the mainstream media companies and telecommunications companies can silence speech, but that is completely divorced from legislation which assigns Criminal Penalty to such speech (and they will assign criminal penalty once something is outlawed) and can enforce it with the legal system.

Quote from: CRKrueger;947057Jesus Christ are you naive.  Who defines the term racist?  How will it be applied?  Once you remove "Congress Shall Make No Law" you realize that they can make any law, right...RIGHT?  You actually think it will stop at Group X.  That's literally the stupidest thing I've ever seen you post.

Nope, people can and will be duped, and it's even easier to dupe them when you silence all open speech on something, because then speech will occur not in the open, but underground where it can fester and grow instead of being openly mocked and derided.  If we have a group of people in this country who openly support a fucktard like Spencer, then we need them out in the open, we need to debate them and expose them.  You will never have a chance at changing anyone's mind if you don't talk to them.  Wanting to silence someone only proves that you are afraid of them, and that lends strength to their beliefs and makes it easier for them to recruit people.

Sure, I'm the naive one. You forgot to say it's left's fault that Spencer exists, and we can have the Hand-Wringing bingo over. You know what also makes it easy to recruit people? Exposition, like on national media and stuff. As I said - if you think you can be Atticus Finch and prove those wacky racial realists every time they show here how silly they are, hey - where were you when 5Stone was giving his great speeches about blacks being predisposed to being less intelligent than whites? I didn't see you calling out on his bullshit, jhkim was, everyone else was fine to go along and nod solemnly.

QuoteYou're being ridiculously short-sighted if not blind.  There's an argument to be made about the Corporate Takeover of America and how the mainstream media companies and telecommunications companies can silence speech, but that is completely divorced from legislation which assigns Criminal Penalty to such speech (and they will assign criminal penalty once something is outlawed) and can enforce it with the legal system.

I'm talking state of this forum, not State of the Union address. You want 'racial realists' around - be my guest, go ahead and convince Pundit they need a platform, I couldn't give two shits less about your libertarian approach to Free Speech regarding racists, it's not my litterbox after all, and I'm sure you can explain to Pundit enough how racists need a right to speak out their mind too, and as long as you all keep to Pungency I guess I can live with it. And you are ridiculously short sighted yourself - you have cockroaches in your kitchen, and you think everything's fine, because they keep telling you that you have to let them keep on breeding, or the Left Will Win.

Yeah, I was completely silent...

Quote from: CRKrueger;943432Yeah...that was...just...wow.

I mean even if we do manage to fully map both our genetic code and the brain (the tools for which haven't even been invented yet), what we'll find is more infrastructure-related. X amount of neurons firing per second, Y amount of storage, Z amount of total neural connections.

For there to be difference in genetic populations there has to be a way to select for genetic difference. If Pure Western Whitey has the Freedom and Democracy genes how does that explain Middle Ages Monarchies? How does that explain the current crop of young white Brits and Americans that want to throw away the heritage of freedom for ideological repression? The Middle East was once a center of science and learning before the coming of Abrahamic Faith 3.0, where's the major genetic change to explain that? Are the Westboro Baptists explained by genetics?

If we ever get to the level where we can say that Democracy as an idea is a provable specific cocktail of chemicals in the brain (which it would have to be for it to be genetically controlled) then it still doesn't matter because then we'll also have the science to inject you with the Democracy Retrovirus that will rewrite your DNA and give you Democracy Pills to ensure the proper chemical output.

The idea that the current mixture of cultures and religions in the middle east won't accept Western Democracy at the barrel of a gun pushed from the outside by a foreign invader is pretty fucking obvious. The idea that the people themselves are incapable of it is Unabomber levels of crazy. Just look at Iran before the Islamic Revolution.

There were other posts as well, weird that you forgot this one since I was specifically replying to you, but at this point you're not actually thinking, you're just trying to win by any means necessary like a good little zealot.

Quote from: CRKrueger;947060Yeah, I was completely silent...



There were other posts as well, weird that you forgot this one since I was specifically replying to you, but at this point you're not actually thinking, you're just trying to win by any means necessary like a good little zealot.

Except that's a different poster, S'mon, not 5Stone, which should say you something about state of the forum when you don't even know which of the 'racial realist' posters your opponent mentions .

And please, I know you think yourself a marker of objectivity, but "Racists deserve platform of speech too" is not a moderate position, not by a fucking longshot, so spare me the patronization.

Quote from: Rincewind1;947061Except that's a different poster, S'mon, not 5Stone, which should say you something about state of the forum when you don't even know which of the 'racial realist' posters your opponent mentions .

Ok, you got me there.

But if you want to point to Jkim calling out 5StoneGames on his bullshit, Jkim is also the author of a thread questioning the ban.  He believes in debating him, not silencing him.

Quote from: Rincewind1;947061And please, I know you think yourself a marker of objectivity, but "Racists deserve platform of speech too" is not a moderate position, not by a fucking longshot, so spare me the patronization.

The fact that it isn't a moderate position explains nearly everything wrong with the Left.

There is absolutely no way that you can institute control over ideas via legislation by the state without opening yourself to abuses and the silencing of any idea.

Quote from: CRKrueger;947066Ok, you got me there.

But if you want to point to Jkim calling out 5StoneGames on his bullshit, Jkim is also the author of a thread questioning the ban.  He believes in debating him, not silencing him.

Perhaps he has less cynical view of racial realists than I do, or he imagines an Internet argument with one might legitimately change one. I on the other hand, consider the pack nodding their heads solemnly. I'm fine with a debate. I don't think RPG forum is necessarily the best place to debate 'racial realists.' as it lacks context for many of the solemn nodding heads. And if you want to say that solemn heads aren't an issue, well -  freedoms and vigilance, you know how it goes.

QuoteThe fact that it isn't a moderate position explains nearly everything wrong with the Left.

There is absolutely no way that you can institute control over ideas via legislation by the state without opening yourself to abuses and the silencing of any idea.

And the fact that you think racists deserve an equal platform explains everything wrong with the Right. There's absolutely no way that you can allow radical ideas to roam equally in the media in times of crisis and not expect a bunch of desperate fools to swallow them, especially when big money starts to back them up. Hells, it's fine to call for violence as long as it's law-mandated violence.

Look, we can do this all day - as I said, it's not my sandbox, you can petition Pundit, and if the Demographics is Destiny crowd keeps to the Pungency with their ideas, I guess I'll have to live with that.

Hells, if we're unbanning "unjustly banned", why not BT? Or Mythusmage? I mean, BT was posting shocker porn, all right, but Mythusmage? "All" the guy did was defending paedophilia, don't trounce on his free speech. After all, it's not like there's nuance to ideas and principles, it's black and white. In fact, why not discuss that right now.

Yikes, things do seem to be circling the bowl already. Without someone like OHT around to shut down the threads when they get bug crazy this forum will get infected with stormfronters and conspiracy mongers in no time.

Quote from: Voros;947090Yikes, things do seem to be circling the bowl already. Without someone like OHT around to shut down the threads when they get bug crazy this forum will get infected with stormfronters and conspiracy mongers in no time.

Not really. The problem is that threads like these will continue to be sidetracked by bullshit completely irrelevant to the actual topic at hand. The last 2 pages are proof enough.

If nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve.

On the other hand, if I were a mod the most common reason for bans would be "You're banned because I haven't had my coffee" or "You're banned because my diet's been short on fiber lately."

Quote from: Warboss Squee;945926I'll do it. If you don't like how I operate, can me.

You're not a bad candidate. Except that I have trouble trusting a man with no profile avatar...

Quote from: Rincewind1;947023I'll go with ideologically blinded.

You're right. I am "ideologically blind" on the issue of Freedom of Speech.

You like "radical" ideas like women voting, gay marriage or child labor laws?

If so, thank my ideologically blinded brethren who stood for Free Speech so such "unacceptable" and "radical" ideas could be spoken in the public forum.

But Free Speech is a double edged sword.

For every "progressive", "nice" or "good" radical idea that must be allowed to be discussed, there are many, many terrible words whose right to be spoken is equally important.

Because depending on the era and the culture, what you call "good", the majority may call "evil".

Quote from: Rincewind1;9470451) Banning racists is not some terrible tool of Authoritarianism that'll crush all the free spirits, it's getting rid of the open fuckheads.

I have already publicly stated on this forum that MAYBE the best step forward for theRPGsite is banning any "racial realists" or "race supremacists" because MAYBE any free speech zone would become populated with their kind, and that would damage the site.

The more I think about it, the more I support RPGPundit using his Urbanski persona to create a political Free Speech forum separate from theRPGsite. I am sure it would draw LOTS of people and attention and WTF knows how fun, sick and/or berserk it could get.

Then all political spank and wank could be purged from here.

Quote from: RPGPundit;947147You're not a bad candidate. Except that I have trouble trusting a man with no profile avatar...

That's not much of a hurdle.

I ran as ST in a couple of World of Darkness chats so I know what is like to be hated on.  This forum site with all of its "racism and problematic posts" is nothing to the hell holes I dealt with.

I stand for free speech even if it is free speech I don't like.

I hate the ideas of social justice with its bullshit identity politics and like Sargon I hate the ideas of the alt right with their bullshit identity politics.

Not to mention I have free time.  

Hell my avatar is a crappy drawing of a snowman casting a spell and flipping everyone off.

So yes I will nominate myself.  Only thing I don't have is a computer (using Kindle tablet), and I am no tech expert.  Don't like me you can just fire me, or not hire me.

Though in fairness do not hire jhkim.  I do not trust him.

Quote from: RPGPundit;947147You're not a bad candidate. Except that I have trouble trusting a man with no profile avatar...

If you can't show a piece of yourself in a picture, what is this world coming to!