The Forums, they are a changin'

Sacrificial Lamb · March 20, 2009, 02:45:42 PM

If it's any consolation, Pundit, I like the forums very much...and I think you're doing a fine job. Please, carry on. :hatsoff:

David R · March 20, 2009, 08:31:45 PM

Quote from: Koltar;291176By-the-way.....

Every time I see the title of thios thread I start hearing Bob Dylan's voice singing the words of his song altered like that.

I think of Bob Roberts.

Regards,
David R

Seanchai · March 21, 2009, 08:31:21 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;290639Are people starting to see the difference yet?

No. Because there isn't one. I was banned from TBP because I said Cessna was a bad moderator. Now I'm being banned from the RPGSite for saying you're a bad moderator. That's literally the same thing - what difference am I supposed to see?

Quote from: RPGPundit;290800I don't ban people for criticizing me...

Except that's exactly what you did.

Seanchai

jeff37923 · March 21, 2009, 10:17:38 PM

Seanchai, you were banned from RPGnet because you were being a douchebag. You are being disciplined here also because you are being a douchebag.

This whole thing with you seems to hinge upon you being a douchebag...

Solution, quit being a douchebag.

Benoist · March 21, 2009, 11:22:22 PM

It's like we were saying: the one rule of any forum is "don't piss off the mods".

David R · March 22, 2009, 05:34:59 AM

Quote from: jeff37923;291587Seanchai, you were banned from RPGnet because you were being a douchebag. You are being disciplined here also because you are being a douchebag.

This whole thing with you seems to hinge upon you being a douchebag...

Solution, quit being a douchebag.

But see, he really isn't being a douchebag this time. He's just holding the Pundit up to the standards that the Pundit professes to have. Of course you can say things here that you can't say on many other forums, but that's not the same as freedom of speech and it get's even more dodgy when paired with the "don't fuck with the mods" rule.

And remember whenever this banning issue has come up, Seanchai has been on the side of the principle (free speech), more than anyone one of us, never letting his personal views (on the candidate suggested for bannation) get in the way. (I'm like so guilty of this)

If Pundit had not gone on about tBP and freedom of speech, I doubt Seanchai, would have a leg to stand on. I think it's great that people like Cavscout and the rest were topic banned or banned outright, but then again I never bought into this whole freedom of speech BS but did into the whole "DFWTM"* idea.

*Which is to say, I have full confidence that when it comes to these issues, the mods here (Pundit included) will carry them out in a more or less fair manner.

Regards,
David R

RPGPundit · March 22, 2009, 12:31:39 PM

Quote from: Seanchai;291577Except that's exactly what you did.

Seanchai

No, you weren't banned for criticizing me, you were shown an object lesson, a rhetorical exercise if you will, to demonstrate exactly what is the difference between how people are moderated here, vs. how people are moderated on RPG.net; and you were chosen as this object lesson because you insisted on pushing a propagandist harassing LIE that we were "the same".

IF we were really "the same" there would have been no notable difference between how I treated you when pretending to be an rpgnet-mod and how I treat people as an admin normally. But there was, and everyone noticed this, and thus, the point is proved.

RPGPundit

Seanchai · March 22, 2009, 03:22:53 PM

Quote from: David R;291616But see, he really isn't being a douchebag this time.

Even if I were, I'd be in good company. There are plenty of douchebags here. In fact, the phrase "pot calling the kettle black" springs to mind...

Quote from: David R;291616And remember whenever this banning issue has come up, Seanchai has been on the side of the principle (free speech)...

Or, more concisely, being Big Girls and Boys.

Let's say the idea behind the RPGSite is being able to discuss RPG without the heavier restraints of moderation. That is, is someone is full of shit, you can simply say, "You're full of shit," instead of being passive-aggressive, aggressive in other ways, to attempting to resort to sly insult.

Let's also say that everyone here understands and buys into this principle.

If you agree with these two principles, they you're also agreeing that people can say to you, "You're full of shit." Or worse.

You can get all bothered about folks doing so, but you agreed to make use of a place where that's acceptable. Moreover, you can't control the behavior of others.

What you can control is your own response. In other words, instead of looking to rules or moderators to absolve of the responsibility for your own choices (coming to a site where free speech is allowed and the choice of how to respond), cowboy up. Be a Big Girl or Boy and show some self-control.

Let's say the folks who were banned from the RPGSite really where here only for negative attention. If folks show some self-control, that's meaningless. Almost without impact. Folks like these are disruptive because others follow their agenda and provide them with negative attention.

Banning them isn't the answer - there will always be someone new around who is just here for negative attention. A culture of self-control solves that problem as those types of folks, whether they're new or have been around a while, don't find a foothold.

That aside, all that banning really does is help create a culture of bannings and agendas. You start banning folks and pretty soon, the people who remain will expect you to start banning the people they don't like and want around. You can create rules and definitions surrounding disciplinary procedures, but that doesn't help as people will try to twist them to suit their own agendas, work to skirt the letter of the law rather than the genius locii, etc..

Seanchai

Seanchai · March 22, 2009, 03:24:10 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;291626IF we were really "the same" there would have been no notable difference between how I treated you when pretending to be an rpgnet-mod and how I treat people as an admin normally. But there was, and everyone noticed this, and thus, the point is proved.

I don't even know what you're going on about anymore. Let me ask this: If I repeatedly claimed that you were a dog, would you start barking to disprove my allegation?

Seanchai

David R · March 22, 2009, 09:09:56 PM

Quote from: Seanchai;291666Even if I were, I'd be in good company. There are plenty of douchebags here. In fact, the phrase "pot calling the kettle black" springs to mind...

Well this is kinda of true. But, there are douchebags and then there are Cavscouts. Of course this is irrelevent from your perspective about moderation.

QuoteOr, more concisely, being Big Girls and Boys.

Well, you clarified your position for the readers at home. I disagree with it of course and both our posts in the various consultation threads is evidence of this.

As for your temp banning, reading your reply here, the Pundit's own words....well I believe kids in the 90's would refer to it as ironic.

Regards,
David R

droog · March 22, 2009, 09:20:40 PM

I kind of liked having CavScout around....

David R · March 22, 2009, 11:27:05 PM

That's why you're on my list, comrade.

Regards,
David R

RPGPundit · March 23, 2009, 01:16:28 AM

Quote from: Seanchai;291667I don't even know what you're going on about anymore. Let me ask this: If I repeatedly claimed that you were a dog, would you start barking to disprove my allegation?

Seanchai

You're just complaining because I gave you what you asked for! Your insistence on claiming that I was an RPGnet mod was so determined in its denial of reality that it could only be interpreted as a wish that it were so; and I decided to make that special wish come true, just for you!

And yet here you are complaining. If you even really believed the bullshit line you were spouting you shouldn't have been surprised in the least or claim that you were treated in any different a way than I ever treated anyone else.

For starters, to my recollection, this is the first time I ever used red text for anything on this site. Its definitely the first time I gave anyone a 24-hour ban.

So again, your point has been defeated. Its really your own call whether you now choose to continue barking your blatant denial of reality, or crawl away slinking with your tail between your legs.

RPGPundit

Sacrificial Lamb · March 23, 2009, 11:13:42 AM

Quote from: jeff37923;291587Seanchai, you were banned from RPGnet because you were being a douchebag. You are being disciplined here also because you are being a douchebag.

This whole thing with you seems to hinge upon you being a douchebag...

Solution, quit being a douchebag.

Seanchai has always been a douchebag. I thought the 24-hour temp ban was funny. He yaps incessantly about Pundit being the same as the rpgnet mods, so Pundit decides to be ironic, and treat him the way an rpgnet mod actually would, simply to prove a point. And now Seanchai feigns apathy about an argument again, pretends to not understand the point Pundit made, and then proceeds to whine about it? Classic.

Seanchai · March 23, 2009, 06:47:20 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;291796For starters, to my recollection, this is the first time I ever used red text for anything on this site. Its definitely the first time I gave anyone a 24-hour ban.

Why does it matter that this is the first time? If understand the claims you're making about your moderation of the RPGSite, it should never have happened in the first place.

Seanchai