I like pie!

C'mon, Ed.  Context!

!i!

Let it be noted that shalvayez's avatar is now officially cool (the brain in a jar).

Quote from: RPGPundit;302616To be honest, shalvayez, I'm not a big fan of your avatar either. I removed Droog's avatar forcibly because he had a flattering portrait of Hitler on his; yours is of a nazi zombie which is quite a different degree, so I would not force you to remove it, but I will express that I think its too easy to misinterpret, and you might want to consider that.

RPGPundit

 Some of the point I have been trying to make is, Pundit takes an awful amount of abuse for his modding style, on a PRIVATE forum that he could, should he want, just literally OUST all the douchebags that make it toxic, myself included.
 My avatar was from Dead Snow, the Norwegian nazi zombie flick, and more or less was a statement about some of the SHEEP that infest RPGsite. Avatar changed, but I'm not sure you're gonna like the new one either. It's another statement. Ultimately, Pundit, you would have been RIGHT to tell me, "Change your fucking avatar, or find somewhere else to read about RPGs."

Quote from: Ian Absentia;302623You mean not like what you're doing now by copying topics from RPG.net, EN World, and The RPG Haven.  Yeah, you did have a different kind of agenda back then.

Of course, a lot of your agenda was to be the "anti-RPG.net" once you got punted.  Let's not mince words here -- much of your motivation for remodeling this website was, and remains, spite.

Hey, that ought to be your new handle: RPGnetPunted.*

!i!

[*Cheap shot.  That should have been your original handle here.]

This site was started in part as a reaction to the authoritarian and cliqueish moderation policies of RPG.net.
It wasn't started as an "I Hate Cessna" site.

Most importantly, its orientation differed from that of RPG.net in significant ways: we were DIFFERENT.
We didn't have a Tangency, we do have free speech, you could talk about games, you didn't have to worry about being banned for saying something politically incorrect.
We had the official Amber forum, and we didn't have Forge-propagators running amok without limits to what they could say while other posters were limited in how they could criticize them.

In very concrete ways, the overall experience a member of theRPGsite got was very different from the overall experience of being a member of RPG.net.
You cannot same the same for Hinterwelt's site, where the only significant difference is that I am not there.

RPGPundit

Nah, the brain in a jar is pretty awesome. I got that the "statement" you were making with the old avatar wasn't "I am a real fan of the Nazis", but what your statement actually DID consist of was not very clear, so for that alone your old choice wasn't really a good one, since it could be misinterpreted.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Ian Absentia;302613Probably about as well as Cessna was accepted when he came around here -- embraced by some, hounded by many.  You reap what you sow, right?  That's the message people were sending at the time.

You know, with each expanding page of this thread, I'm reminded of all the derisive comments the members of RPG.net had for this site in its early days.  The parallels are so consistent.  Not that this site was founded to be the anti-RPG.net -- oh, no, not that.

!i!

Look, I know you're obviously really determined here to paint me and everyone else here as some awful fucking hypocrite, but could you please just cut it the fuck out already?

You know what?  If I'd learned about this forum of yours a while back, I probably would've at least checked it out for a bit, just as I did Jame's original site, and I even poked my head into that Blue Devil cunt's site.  There seems to be at least a few people I like (you would be one of them even), and it'd be nice to see them post stuff again since they apparently couldn't accept that there are parts about this site one has to ignore sometimes, just like any site, among them it's creator.  But that's fine.

But this fucking condescending, weaselly bullshit from Bill and the rest just turns me right the fuck off.  It makes it abundantly clear that I should not expect anything different, just with different bugaboos.  And it makes me rather disgusted with the idea of being involved with a site so willing to blanket insult a group that happens to include myself.  

I don't like liars.  I don't like PR wonks.  I don't like diplomats.  And I don't like being fucking condescended to.  And that's pretty much what I'm hearing a hell of a lot in this fucking thread, and I'm disappointed you folks have apparently developed a Ron Edwards like blindness to how your words will be taken.

And when you add on to the fact that, yeah, I really don't fucking like the Forge, and don't have the slightest interest in any place where such insulting and offensive tripe is given the open air, then no, I'm not fucking interested.  Unlike some folks who joined this site my motivations were never "free speech uber alles", though the moderation was certainly refreshing and more in line with other sites I frequented at the time.

Just because the balance of decision came down against this latest "new, better site" when it hasn't in the past doesn't make me a fucking hypocrite.

So fucking stuff it.

Quote from: J Arcane;302635Look, I know you're obviously really determined here to paint me and everyone else here as some awful fucking hypocrite, but could you please just cut it the fuck out already?

Yes, my sentiment exactly. Kind of sucks when folks do that.

Quote from: RPGPundit;302633It wasn't started as an "I Hate Cessna" site.

And yet that was much of the appeal to many who came here.  Hell, that's part of the reason I came here.  And much as you may have tried to play that facet down, there were people gladly lining up to say so every time someone from RPG.net raised the topic.  Sound familiar?  I don't know if this hurts you, or if it just irritates you, but what goes around comes around -- you've become what you rejected.

By the way, for what it's worth, this is how I (almost) like you -- clear, cogent, opinionated, and reasonable, without all that attack-dog, rhetorical horseshit in the way.  I appreciate it.

!i!

Quote from: J Arcane;302635I don't like...  
I don't like...  
I don't like...  
And I don't like...
...and I'm disappointed...
...I really don't fucking like...

Yeah, yeah. I've figured that out over the last couple of years.  Be sure to drop me a line when you come up with something you do like.

!i!

Quote from: Ian Absentia;302647Yeah, yeah. I've figured that out over the last couple of years.  Be sure to drop me a line when you come up with something you do like.

!i!

You know what?  

Go fuck yourself.

Quote from: J Arcane;302660You know what?  

Go fuck yourself.

 And don't videotape it either, people generally aren't into midget porn.

Quote from: Ian Absentia;302645And yet that was much of the appeal to many who came here.  Hell, that's part of the reason I came here.  And much as you may have tried to play that facet down, there were people gladly lining up to say so every time someone from RPG.net raised the topic.  Sound familiar?  

Yes. In the beginning, people got all butthurt about rpgnet, Pundit among them. What do you expect? Sometimes, people need to vent....and here, they could actually do it without fears of reprisal. But you know what? Therpgsite eventually got over it, and just moved on.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI don't know if this hurts you, or if it just irritates you, but what goes around comes around -- you've become what you rejected.

No. Pundit is right that this place has always been different from rpgnet. therpgsite is not "the Tangency Show", and frankly, that changes everything. Furthermore, we don't have to suck up to mods around here, nor do we have to engage in endless passive-aggressiveness in order to technically skirt a rule on personal attacks. People fight, and then they move on. Game over.

This is a very different place from rpgnet. But therpghaven, on the other hand, feels mostly like a watered-down version of this place.....at least for now. But like I said before, that can easily change...

Quote from: HinterWelt;302516This is a great example of what I mean. Not a shred of rational argument just ad hominem.

Whereas,

Quote from: HinterWeltThis site is based on hate.

is logical analysis of empirical data presented in argumentative essay form with references?

Come on, Bill, this is a conversation. None of us are being brilliant debaters here. It's just about whether you're presenting your honest opinions, or being a bit of a prick.

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;302664No. Pundit is right that this place has always been different from rpgnet. therpgsite is not "the Tangency Show", and frankly, that changes everything. Furthermore, we don't have to suck up to mods around here, nor do we have to engage in endless passive-aggressiveness in order to technically skirt a rule on personal attacks. People fight, and then they move on. Game over.

This is a very different place from rpgnet. But therpghaven, on the other hand, feels mostly like a watered-down version of this place.....at least for now. But like I said before, that can easily change...

You got that right, Sac lamb.

Pundit has really done his best to steer this place away from being Tangency-like  - often times with the gentle (sometimes NOT so gentle) nudging of the members on here.

As I've said before, Pundit can sometimes be an asshole - but he's often a very fair and reasonable asshole at the same time.

- Ed C.

Quote from: RPGPundit;302609I don't really believe that they intentionally sent Hairfoot to be a shill. It wouldn't have been good strategy, and I really think he just kind of haplessly stumbled on this.

Quite.

As I mentioned in the OP, I've been purposely searching for new boards to frequent - hopefully boards where endorsement of 4E isn't the de facto administration policy.

I joined theRPGsite on 18/4, after Google brought up the 4E criticism thread, and RPGHAven 2 days later.  I was actually invited to visit Haven via a PM on RPGnet after a run-in with the adolescent lynch mob there, but that's as close to a conspiracy-to-shill as it gets.

A couple of posts at the Haven wryly commented on the frequency of thread topic "borrowing", and I posted the OP here, more in mock horror than anything.  I had no idea I was walking blindly into a longstanding and acrimonious board-war.

If this were another shitty little one-eyed fan site, I'd expect threads to be pinched and wouldn't have signed up.  But it isn't, so I didn't and I did.

I will engage in partisan boosterism on only two topics: Swords & Wizardry, and Basic Fantasy RPG, because they're awesome.