Quote from: CessnaYawn.

Of course you yawn - I wouldn't be surprised if you hear from folks that you're asshole daily. There are two points in my brief message, and neither are for you. You're a lost cause. You're just the guy I was quoting...

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiOf course you yawn - I wouldn't be surprised if you hear from folks that you're asshole daily. There are two points in my brief message, and neither are for you. You're a lost cause. You're just the guy I was quoting...

Seanchai

If you do not think this site has its share of assholes then you aren't paying attention.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltIf you do not think this site has its share of assholes then you aren't paying attention.

Yeah, this place has assholes, too.

So, would you listen to Nox if he started telling you how the site should be moderated? Would the RPGnet folks listen to him if he managed to get back on over there and started telling them how to moderate?

Cessa is a large part of why RPGnet is the way it is. He can bemoan its fate all he likes, but it's sham—he help create said fate and helps keep RPGnet tied to it. If you want sagacious advice about how to run a discussion board, find someone who's done it right...

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiYeah, this place has assholes, too.

So, would you listen to Nox if he started telling you how the site should be moderated? Would the RPGnet folks listen to him if he managed to get back on over there and started telling them how to moderate?

Cessa is a large part of why RPGnet is the way it is. He can bemoan its fate all he likes, but it's sham—he help create said fate and helps keep RPGnet tied to it. If you want sagacious advice about how to run a discussion board, find someone who's done it right...

Seanchai

Taking advice from Nox is poor judgement. Taking advice from someone who has been through what we can hope TheRPGSite goes through (immense growth, posters with diverse backgrounds) is just common sense. It is not like he is setting policy here, Pundit is.

Now, you may choose not to take his advice, may choose to speak out, but from where I am sitting Cessna is making a lot of sense. He seems to be saying we need to be careful and watch what we do, since this is the path RPG.Net started down not so long ago. Now, there are a lot of turns and twists on that path and it is not inevitable that we will become RPG.Net II, but we need to be aware of the risks and decisions we make. It is not like Pundit is going to stand up one day and say "Moderation for all, Protection for all, and this is a general posting site". It will be a gradual and seductive journey. Road to Hell and the paving there of.

As an aside, I appreciate that folks have personal issues with Cessna, but this really is not the thread for it. Isn't that what OT is for?

Bill

Quote from: SeanchaiThat may have been where it started, but it took some asshole moderators and administrators to get it to where it is today...

Or one might say this, instead:

Cessna -- given your tenure as a mod at RPG.Net, and given the origins and development of its moderation policies, what advice would you have in this situation?

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Cessna -- given your tenure as a mod at RPG.Net, and given the origins and development of its moderation policies, what advice would you have in this situation?

Well, since he just quit as rpg.net admin, I think you have your answer

Quote from: HinterWeltAs an aside, I appreciate that folks have personal issues with Cessna, but this really is not the thread for it. Isn't that what OT is for?

Bill

As Bill already pointed out upthread, it took a lot of balls for Cessna to speak up with his views and I really respect him for that.  It took balls because it was inevitable that people would take cheap shots at him.  He has given what I consider to be good advice and I think it is shitty form to bring up old feuds that I, or anyone else, don't give a shit about.

Take it somewhere else, please.


TGA

Quote from: JimBobOzWell, since he just quit as rpg.net admin, I think you have your answer

Yea, I know.  He's been there and done it...I wonder what he has to say about it, since we're facing it.

Quote from: HinterWeltHe seems to be saying we need to be careful and watch what we do, since this is the path RPG.Net started down not so long ago.

And it was his input that helped take RPGnet to where it is today. So if we are potentially on RPGnet's path, why would we want his input again? It's not as if he's a beacon of good judgement the first time around.

Quote from: HinterWeltAs an aside, I appreciate that folks have personal issues with Cessna, but this really is not the thread for it. Isn't that what OT is for?

I agree—who needs this thread for that? This is about his warning.

He might be right. We could be where RPGnet was at several years ago. But it wasn't just being on a particular path that made RPGnet the home of crazy ass moderation it is today. It was also the people involved.

It was the administrators and moderators - Kuma and Cessna spring to mind - who made bad judgement calls, let other moderators run rampant, created assinine policies, engendered an air of repressed hostility, etc.. Plenty of Internet sites are moderated, were on the same path, too, but didn't turn out like RPGnet.

I think of it like this: If I want to learn to play guitar, I listen to people who know how to play. If I want to have a successful small business, I listen to the folks who have a successful small business. And so on.

Seanchai

Quote from: The Good AssyrianHe has given what I consider to be good advice and I think it is shitty form to bring up old feuds that I, or anyone else, don't give a shit about.

And who would be doing that?

I don't give a flying fuck about him banning me. He's been here for weeks—I could have spent that time following him around, making him miserable. I ignored him. I had better things to do.

I commented today, in this thread, not because of who said something per se, but because of what was said.

You're right, someone's focusing on old feuds, bringing them into this thread, but it isn't me. So if you don't like, stop.

Seanchai

Quote from: SeanchaiAnd who would be doing that?

I don't give a flying fuck about him banning me. He's been here for weeks—I could have spent that time following him around, making him miserable. I ignored him. I had better things to do.

I commented today, in this thread, not because of who said something per se, but because of what was said.

You're right, someone's focusing on old feuds, bringing them into this thread, but it isn't me. So if you don't like, stop.

Seanchai

Forgive me if I am quick on the trigger tonight.  I was annoyed that on this thread and the thread regarding his announcement on RPG.net it seemed like people were taking the opportunity to take their usual shots at him.  I like what he posts here and don't want to see him stop posting on account of people nursing old feuds carried from another forum.

On topic, I disagree with your assessment of the value of his input.  He is in an excellent position to tell us what he thinks *did* go wrong at RPG.net.  He was there.  Doesn't mean that what he says is gospel, but it is IMO very useful.


TGA

Seanchei: rpg.net isn't a shithole.  For one thing, it has a huge and active userbase and there is a lot of rpg discussion there.  I think a lot of people here are disatisfied with it for one reason or another, and it's not the best rpg discussion site on the net by a far shot.

But if Cessna has input, I'd like to hear it and I value it.  You can learn from that kind of experience, no matter what.  Both the good and the bad.  We learn from mistakes, even the ones others have made.  And for shit's sake, man, I think we're mature enough to figure out if his advice is good or bad for our own damn selves.  So stop taking a shit on him.

You know the old proverb: A wise man learns from other people's mistakes. A fool learns from his own, but he learns them well.

Interesting drift going on here, the thread starts out about Nox and has now shifted to talking about Cessna.

 Look , Cessna , whether you like him or not has experience as a moderator. Some of that experience might be useful  - at least partially as an education. Pundit has already said he is going to try and do things differently.

 Having a guy says "This is similiar to something that happened with us" is NOT a bad thing.  That sort of thing might be helpful.  (Oh and I have no love for the Big Purple and Pink, but experience is still experience)

 His subtitle says he is here to just talk about games - and so far that seems to be what he has been trying to do.
 His advice to Pundit  seems friendly.  Pundit can use it or not - its his choice.  I don't see a reason to beat up on Cessna, tho .

Now, back to this Nox guy......

- Ed C.

Even if Cessna is the forum administration antichrist (and I don't think he is) you should still elicit his input for the same reason you ask GW how to run a war: so you can quickly and easily check off the things you shouldn't do from your list of options. All sources of input, especially those speaking with the voice of experience, should be taken into consideration.