Quote from: James McMurrayAre you trying to derail this thread with a political debate?

Not really. I'm pointing out that Nox's views have to be taken in context.

As far as I know, Nox hasn't actually ever said "All Arabs must die." His views on Islam appear to be only a slightly more extreme form of the same views I have seen several other people express.

Quote from: RPGPunditPlease please PLEASE fucking show me a thread from the last month where Nox threadcrapped and disrupted, and I will gladly bring the Spiked Baseball Bat of Great Justice out of retirement.

RPGPundit

I thought I did

http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2012

 
As I said in that post these are just from RPG discussions, not any of the off topic threads.  Whilst I think he's worse in the off topic threads, there is that element of doubt as to who started what.

Quote from: James McMurrayCan someone point me to a post where Nox calls for genocide that isn't a sarcastic reply to someone calling him a racist that wants genocide? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but if it's the subject of the debate, it'd be nice to be able to look for it. I did a search for his name a genocide and nothing came up, but there's so many other ways to phrase it that unless I know what I'm looking for I may never find it. Hopefully someone that remembers the general wording of a particular post could find it more easily.

As far as I know, it was I who first put forward this whole genocide thing. It started with Nox's comments in the "What Will England Do Thread", where he said amongst other things, that for every one hostage that may be killed, one thousand Iranians should be killed in turn. That and the general comments from him about blasting them back to the stone age.

I don't know about sarcastic but there's this -

QuoteApparently some good old fashioned brutality and a few thousand heads on stakes are what it takes to stop islamics from trying to force their way in to other people's countries and imposing their religion on everyone.

SIGH, where's dracula when we need him now?

-

 from this thread:

http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2373

You've got to remember that with Nox my conclusions are based on things he's said in numerous threads. James search under Nox and Islam and you'll find a depressing number of comments that leave no doubt as to the kind of racist he is.

You could say that the above quote he was being sarcastic, but his issues with "Islamics" is well documented. Reading through them just makes me think that this site is really better off without him.

Now we have hgjs sayin' that JimBob and Nox are the same. Honestly this is really stupid. When folks think about us, they already think we are a dodgy site. When hgjs writes about the similarity between Nox and JimBob and goes on about freedom of speech, they think we are a joke. Frankly I prefer being the dodgy site than the site of nutjobs.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RNow we have hgjs sayin' that JimBob and Nox are the same. Honestly this is really stupid.

In your opinion perhaps, but given that JimBobOz got kicked off of RPG.net for being a dick, the fact that some users of theRPGsite (myself for one) also think he's a dick hardly marks this forum as the lunatic fringe.

And if the bits about freedom of speech strike you as crazy, then either you or I are posting at the wrong forum.  If I didn't care about heavy-handed moderation, I'd be at any one of half-a-dozen other sites instead.

Quote from: hgjsIn your opinion perhaps, but given that JimBobOz got kicked off of RPG.net for being a dick, the fact that some users of theRPGsite (myself for one) also think he's a dick hardly marks this forum as the lunatic fringe.

Being kicked of tBP for being a dick is one thing, hell most of the banned from tBP were kicked off for being dicks. Nox is a racist, it's a whole different ball game. I have no objections of you calling JimBob a dick...hell I've done it a couple of times myself. But comparing him to Nox, that's just wrong and extremely stupid.

What could make this forum the lunatic fringe is comments about the similarity between a racist poster and a poster who talks mostly about rpgs and who just sometimes acts like a dick. If you honestly think that JimBob and Nox are the same, well then I guess this conversation is going nowhere.

The Good Assyrian is making a better case for freedom of speech than you. I don't mean to be hostile, but your comments are way out of line. Not liking JimBob is fine. I'm sure there are a lot of folks who don't like him. Saying he's like Nox is wrong. Most of us are dicks. We're not racist. Thank God for that.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: hgjsAnd if the bits about freedom of speech strike you as crazy, then either you or I are posting at the wrong forum.  If I didn't care about heavy-handed moderation, I'd be at any one of half-a-dozen other sites instead.

No this does not strike me as crazy. As I said, TGA is making a better case for it than you. I find both JimBob's and TGA's comments extremely constructive on this issue. Yours leaves me with the sense, that if I don't agree with you about freedom of speech, I don't belong here. Maybe you're right. Maybe I don't belong here.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RNo this does not strike me as crazy. As I said, TGA is making a better case for it than you. I find both JimBob's and TGA's comments extremely constructive on this issue. Yours leaves me with the sense, that if I don't agree with you about freedom of speech, I don't belong here. Maybe you're right. Maybe I don't belong here.

Regards,
David R

I get the feeling that this would be a good time to remark again that the red letters under my name mean absolutely nothing in regards to this (or anything else regarding site policy): I'm just a tech support guy.  My "vote" counts as much or as little as yours.  

I don't agree with the direction you want to take the site, but you have no reason to care what I think any more than you should care about, say, Dominus Nox's opinion of you.

Anyway, I consider anyone on this site posting about RPGs to be a good thing.  This includes you and JimBobOz.

Quote from: hgjsI get the feeling that this would be a good time to remark again that the red letters under my name mean absolutely nothing in regards to this (or anything else regarding site policy): I'm just a tech support guy.  My "vote" counts as much or as little as yours.  

I don't agree with the direction you want to take the site, but you have no reason to care what I think any more than you should care about, say, Dominus Nox's opinion of you.

Anyway, I consider anyone on this site posting about RPGs to be a good thing.  This includes you and JimBobOz.

Oh crap, hgjs I didn't mean to imply that you wanted me off this site or that this had anything to do with you being a mod.

What I meant to say, was....okay look part of "Plays Well With Others" means that I can generally work within the general frame work of the "mood" of this site.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I feel that with this whole Nox thing, I'm having a hard time playin' well with others. I mean I've already insulted a couple of folks...folks who I normally get on well with.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: droogNot really. I'm pointing out that Nox's views have to be taken in context.

As far as I know, Nox hasn't actually ever said "All Arabs must die." His views on Islam appear to be only a slightly more extreme form of the same views I have seen several other people express.

You make a good point.

The most extreme things I recall Dominus Nox saying are along the lines of "we should drop a hundred bombs on Iran for every one of our soldiers they kill" or "the United States is in a war against radical Islam."  You can hear that kind of thing you on U.S. daytime news, and even from the mouths of senators.

Now, it's possible that he does say worse things -- I mostly filter out this type of talk.  But mostly I think it's how rude he is (and how often he brings it up, or at least used to) that creates the impression.

There's a little covered area right next to the entrance of the shoping centre in my home town. Every few weeks this bunch of hell-fire preachers set up camp there and start bothering passers-by. They never preach elsewhere, just that spot. Now most of the stuff they shout from the rafters is pretty insane and offensive, some of them have spittle flying from their mouths.
People going shopping have to walk past them to get to the mall and have to run a gauntlet from these people. No one even looks at them, let alone engages them in conversation. They're nuts and we know it. To confront them would make them think they are getting through to people.

So most times, they shout till they're hoarse and no one acknowledges their existence.

Then one week while i'm in town, i make my way to the mall and surprise, they are there. As i'm walking close by, one of the people challenged and offended by them starts shouting back and insults fly back and forth. Before long, there's a crowd around the preachers, where normally there is none. people gather to hear what all the fuss is about, they're loons right? The preachers start sermonising to everyone gathered (even though they just wanted to see the argument). People who have spent years walking past are listening to this crap, people visiting town wander by shaking their heads thinking "what kind of wierd place is this?", residents of the place gather to shout at the preachers, it all kicks off.

Next week, it's all as normal, except maybe some of the people from out of town who saw last weeks display stay at home. The preachers ahd never had it so good. They had a crowd to talk to and that gave them the gumption to try harder in following weeks. They preached their hearts out, spewing hate. No one listened, no one stopped.

I guess the point is this: Attention breeds attention and a crowd attracts a crowd. If there is no attention paid, they receive no attention, if a crowd isn't present, it doesn't pull in others. In fact, the crowd highlights the act for people who didn't know it was there, colouring their view (of my home town, in this case).

Ignoring people that are unpleasant does not imply acceptance of their views. It implies that their words aren't even worth considering in the first place. Every time someone confronts those preachers, they've won, they have their audience. Screaming forlornly in a corner of town, in the wind and rain gains them nothing unless people stop to watch or engage. Let them stand and rot.

Only when a crowd starts to take up and spread those preachers words should the rest of us sane people run them out of town. In the meanwhile, they are just fringe loonies with no respect, no friends and no life.

Quote from: David RAs far as I know, it was I who first put forward this whole genocide thing. It started with Nox's comments in the "What Will England Do Thread", where he said amongst other things, that for every one hostage that may be killed, one thousand Iranians should be killed in turn. That and the general comments from him about blasting them back to the stone age.

This does not, to me at least, rise to JimBob's claim of legally "inciting genocide".  It is one guy being an ignorant prick.  The "G" word is a powerful word.  Like "Evil" it should be reserved for the real thing lest we cheapen it.

And thank you David for your kind words in this thread.  I think that we as a community can come to a civil understanding, if not agreement, on these issues.  In the end, the more energy that this saps from the quality discussion that I see every single day here, the less likely that new visitors will find things that they like and stay.  The real tragedy is that this blowup could harm the site that I have come to enjoy more than the antics of Nox.


TGA

I've made up my mind.

If someone wants to be a prick, fine. I can always put him on my Ignore List if I really want to.

Now, openly advocating a crime or encouraging it, that's an entirely different game. It is a criminal offense in many countries, and I don't think this website can take that kind of risk. It goes beyond what all of us can individually choose to do with another member's idiotic rants.

Thus, I vote for B.

Quote from: StumpydaveI thought I did

http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2012

 
As I said in that post these are just from RPG discussions, not any of the off topic threads.  Whilst I think he's worse in the off topic threads, there is that element of doubt as to who started what.

Fucking hell... Koltar has said that he doesn't feel "stalked" by Nox, and the cases you've brought up are still too borderline for me to act on it.  But the case is building up, increasingly I'm failing to see any redeeming quality in why we would want to keep this shithead.

Is there anyone here that actually LIKES the guy (note: likes him, not "thinks its funny having him around" or "thinks he has a right to say what he says" or "thinks its educational having him there as a case study")?

RPGPundit

Quote from: David RNow we have hgjs sayin' that JimBob and Nox are the same. Honestly this is really stupid. When folks think about us, they already think we are a dodgy site. When hgjs writes about the similarity between Nox and JimBob and goes on about freedom of speech, they think we are a joke. Frankly I prefer being the dodgy site than the site of nutjobs.

They are not the same. Nox is an oddball, and JimBob is a sleazeball. Nox has no ambition to impose his "views" on anybody, while ChefKyle likes nothing so much as leading a lynch mob. He looks for a vulnerable guy, like Kiero on rpg.net or Nox here, and then he tries to assemble a posse.

Then again, if history's any guide, when his shtick runs dry for the first time he'll beg the admins for a new ID; and when it runs dry for a second time, he'll be run out of town. So, whatever.