Quote from: danbuter;663640I hate seeing people get banned. GW could be a goof, but he did have a lot of good rpg threads. I'd also love to see what post actually pushed this over the edge, as nothing started by him has been moved to Other Games in weeks.

Yeah, ditto.

If stuff like this is now a bannable offence would it not be a good idea to make a list of which games go where? I'm thinking particularly of hybrid or contentious games like FATE, DW, Burning Wheel, Sorcerer, etc. I realise that no list can ever be complete, and there's also potential for rules lawyering, but some guidance might be useful.

Quote from: soviet;663658Yeah, ditto.

If stuff like this is now a bannable offence would it not be a good idea to make a list of which games go where? I'm thinking particularly of hybrid or contentious games like FATE, DW, Burning Wheel, Sorcerer, etc. I realise that no list can ever be complete, and there's also potential for rules lawyering, but some guidance might be useful.

Keep in mind, as other mods have said, no one is getting banned for honest mistakes. In this case the poster didn't merely post a DW thread in the main forum. This was a case of someone having a long history of problems on the site. There was a pattern of intentional disruption. Basically, there is nothing wrong with people not realizing where something goes and posting in the wrong forum (that is one of the reasons we move threads for people). The problem is using the issue of where things are placed as a springboard for disruption and doing so in a way that is clearly intended as such (in at least one recent thread he basically stated he was intentionally going aginst the policy).

As I have stated in the past I don't always agree with how some games are categorized here. But it is the policy that non-traditional games and rpgs go in the other games forum. And I have no issue with enforcing the policy or with Pundit having it as a policy. It is his forum and his rules (and if you ask me his rules are pretty darn lenient compared to every other major game forum out there). You don't have to like it, but don't disrupt the site because if it. Asking that people to not deliberately disrupt the site by using using the policy to stir things up, isn't asking a lot. Nor is it a form of tyranny. Those who don't like that these games are placed in a different section of the forum can still have productive discussions in those sections it they choose. I for one would like to see more of that, than what has been going on lately because i do think it is good for the forum to have different points of view.

Quote from: jadraxIt seems to me that if you don't like the set-up here, you can always go elsewhere.

GW's banning is not so much a miscarriage of justice as something that strikes me as random and meaningless. Stepped on a landmine that shouldn't have been there.

But the sad part of it, there is really nowhere else to go. Other forums are mostly horrible or dead, except maybe RPGCodex, which is a lot like the RPGSite I liked, but it is for bitching about computer games, not P&P RPGs. So I increasingly go nowhere.

Quote from: Melan;663676Stepped on a landmine that shouldn't have been there.

Except for the big achtung minen signs everywhere.

The super-secret post that got him banned is what is making me interested.

Quote from: danbuter;663689The super-secret post that got him banned is what is making me interested.

As OHT said, it was the stoner post in media. No relevance whatsoever to RPGs or gaming, just get-a-blog material. Not the first time or the fifth time he'd done the same.

This is not a support group, it is not an option of last resort for the permanently antisocial, it is not where the people who can't play nice with the rest of the kids end up. It's an RPG discussion forum, and whether or not you agree with GW's banning there's no doubt that he had a hard time keeping his shit together sufficiently to do just that. Which is not the RPGSite's problem. This didn't come out of nowhere and was not without warning.

What I'm going to do is go on talking about RPGs, the reason I'm here and the reason almost everyone else is here, without fear that I might cross some arbitrary rule and get banned as a result. Have you looked at 'the infraction forum' lately? You know that useless prick darren maclennan told poor celebrityomnipath to write normally? That's like CO's thing, man. I liked his style, that takes a lot of effort.

What a fucking joke.

Anyway yeah pour one out for GW if you like but he's banned everywhere else and he wasn't really going out of his way to act any different here, so yanno.

Quote from: The Traveller;663694What I'm going to do is go on talking about RPGs, the reason I'm here and the reason almost everyone else is here, without fear that I might cross some arbitrary rule and get banned as a result. Have you looked at 'the infraction forum' lately? You know that useless prick darren maclennan told poor celebrityomnipath to write normally? That's like CO's thing, man. I liked his style, that takes a lot of effort.

What a fucking joke.

He's actually in an excellent position to troll the mods hard. He ought to say that he's not a native English speaker.

Watch the apologies fly for cultural insensitivity.

Quote from: Rincewind1;663697He's actually in an excellent position to troll the mods hard. He ought to say that he's not a native English speaker.

Watch the apologies fly for cultural insensitivity.

CO's too much of a straight shooter for all his deliberate illiteracy to try that, another reason I like him.

Quote from: The Traveller;663699CO's too much of a straight shooter for all his deliberate illiteracy to try that, another reason I like him.

*shrug* When in Rome...

So if he had added one sentence saying Black Sabbath was awesome inspiration for rpgs, everything would be just kosher. :rolleyes:

Half the threads in Media should be locked, if they are going to be that arbitrary.

Quote from: One Horse Town;663595He was doing it for years on stuff that Pundit had told him where to post it, because he didn't like the divide. Fine, you don't like it - now in future threads about so and so go here. He was told that so many times. He also was warned about posting whatever he fancied in the media forum - he continued. So he's gone.

I do agree he was warned about the rules plenty, and should have stopped pushing it. And I'm certainly not accusing you of bad moderation. It was a fair interpretation of a flawed rule.

Quote from: Benoist;663614(3) If you want to post about a game that is somewhere in the greyer than usual area between these two spectrums, whether we're talking about FATE, Dungeon World, hybrid games, and the like, either you PM a mod or admin or Pundit to ask where that should go, OR you default to the Other Games forum, maybe also firing a PM to ask us to move it if it was posted in the wrong place.

That's not hard. It really isn't.

It's that third category and it's handling that is the problem. That's always where the contention occurs, and a large part of it is our host and his one-man one-sided "war" against storygames or anything "non-traditional", and the implication that they're somehow inferior because... mumblesomethingswinemumble. Of course he's going to make a fair and reasonable decision not blinded by his own ideology and ego.

Quote from: Melan;663676But the sad part of it, there is really nowhere else to go. Other forums are mostly horrible or dead, except maybe RPGCodex, which is a lot like the RPGSite I liked, but it is for bitching about computer games, not P&P RPGs. So I increasingly go nowhere.

Yeah, this. There's better and more interesting discussion of games and gaming here. Unfortunately it comes with large doses of gaming orthodoxy, self-publicity and mind-numbingly tedious arguments about the minutia of definitions of words in the english language.

It's bizarrely preferable to the bullshit elsewhere, but it would be better if we could get the discussion without all of the shit.

Quote from: The Traveller;663694You know that useless prick darren maclennan told poor celebrityomnipath to write normally? That's like CO's thing, man. I liked his style, that takes a lot of effort.

I like CO, he's one of my favorite RPGnet posters, but it's a pain to read sometimes and he's apparently admitted it's a gimmick, not an actual learning disability. So fuck that shit.

Quote from: danbuter;663713So if he had added one sentence saying Black Sabbath was awesome inspiration for rpgs, everything would be just kosher. :rolleyes:

It was clearly a "final straw" situation, not a "I fucking hate Black Sabbath, off the site for you and here's a picture of some stupid japanese shit nobody cares about because I think you're a fucking child" situation.

Quote from: Ladybird;663715It's that third category and it's handling that is the problem. That's always where the contention occurs, and a large part of it is our host and his one-man one-sided "war" against storygames or anything "non-traditional", and the implication that they're somehow inferior because... mumblesomethingswinemumble. Of course he's going to make a fair and reasonable decision not blinded by his own ideology and ego.

Follow the steps actually outlined in (3), and there will be no contention.

It takes two clicks in moderator panel to move a thread from traditional RPGs forum to Other Games, if it doesn't meet  ideological standards.

I didn't like GW for the most part, nor his posting, but he did not "threadcrap", going specifically into threads dedicated to, I don't know, RuneQuest or BRP, to try and turn them into discussions how Apocalypse World or Your Life With Master is a far superior game to those two in whatever you try to achieve. If anything, his "trollery" was self - contained in his own threads. Compared to the only "Assholeban" I've been around to see, JDCorley, this guy wasn't even a gnat.

"Please ask admins before posting possibly ideologically shifty content" should be written in red text.

Quote from: Melan;663676GW's banning is not so much a miscarriage of justice as something that strikes me as random and meaningless. Stepped on a landmine that shouldn't have been there.

But the sad part of it, there is really nowhere else to go. Other forums are mostly horrible or dead, except maybe RPGCodex, which is a lot like the RPGSite I liked, but it is for bitching about computer games, not P&P RPGs. So I increasingly go nowhere.

I agree quite strongly with Melan's words, though GW certainly had a dedicated way of pushing buttons. RPG.net is a political correctness gone mad shithole, but that does not mean that "We're not as bad as RPG.net" should be the position to aspire. The position ought to be, obviously, "We are far better than RPG.net". Torquemada was not as bad as Stalin.

And I say this as a guy who usually agrees with Pundit. And I know it's his sandbox. But if he wants for people to keep building their own castles around there, it may be a good idea to stop kicking them over, when it's not exactly 10 hours of work to just move them to the other pit if they hurt administrator's team eyes.

Quote from: Ladybird;663715It's that third category and it's handling that is the problem. That's always where the contention occurs, and a large part of it is our host and his one-man one-sided "war" against storygames or anything "non-traditional", and the implication that they're somehow inferior because... mumblesomethingswinemumble. Of course he's going to make a fair and reasonable decision not blinded by his own ideology and ego.

It's easy. If a game's mechanic have 4 traditional RPGs as an inspiration, it's a pureblood RPG. If it has one or two non - traditional traditional inspiration, it's a mixed blood. If it has 3 or more, it's a storygame.

Edit:

Of course, discussions of any "change" or such issues as this, have a certain problem of those not caring at all for logic and freedom of discussion but wishing to prove how terrible Pundit is (even if 90% of the time he's not really Torquemada nor Stalin) appear. Which only raises the tribal emotions on both sides.

Quote from: danbuter;663713So if he had added one sentence saying Black Sabbath was awesome inspiration for rpgs, everything would be just kosher. :rolleyes:

Half the threads in Media should be locked, if they are going to be that arbitrary.

Off topic derails may only support stereotypes found on The Big Bang Theory.

Quote from: Ladybird;663715It's bizarrely preferable to the bullshit elsewhere, but it would be better if we could get the discussion without all of the shit.

And all the banning.