Quote from: SettembriniSo why is there so much RC love, and so few 1st Edition Love?

Maybe it's a location thing.  People happy sticking with AD&D have their own enclaves and probably don't venture out much to other gaming forums.

As a kid, we switched to AD&D from D&D after about 2 years and preferred AD&D for the added complexity (Now I can have 18/00 strength!)  Thinking about going back, now that I have experience with many more games and whole different perspective I couldn't see myself doing AD&D. 1st ed. AD&D had tons of complexity that neither made much sense nor added much to the game - base AC vs weapon modifiers (which no one I know ever used), weapon speeds, etc.  

D&D had its oddities but they can be written off as simplifications - mainly the lack of multiclassing and that races are also classes.

Ahhh, weapon speeds.

I used them until I figured out that D&D got them ass-backwards and that, in a straight-up fight of halberd vs. dagger, the halberd guy is definitely going to hit first.

-O

Quote from: obrynAhhh, weapon speeds.

I used them until I figured out that D&D got them ass-backwards and that, in a straight-up fight of halberd vs. dagger, the halberd guy is definitely going to hit first.

-O

It's been a while and I'm so not diggng out those books, but wasn't that covered by weapon length rules?

Quote from: obrynAhhh, weapon speeds.

I used them until I figured out that D&D got them ass-backwards and that, in a straight-up fight of halberd vs. dagger, the halberd guy is definitely going to hit first.

-O

Depends on if you bring dagger throwing into the question.

Quote from: gleichmanIt's been a while and I'm so not diggng out those books, but wasn't that covered by weapon length rules?

I don't remember there being any weapon length rules, to be honest.

I'm 90% sure they weren't around in 2nd Edition, which kept the speed factors, however.

-O

Quote from: obrynI don't remember there being any weapon length rules, to be honest.

I'm 90% sure they weren't around in 2nd Edition, which kept the speed factors, however.

-O

I'm still not digging out those books, so I just accept 'no' unless someone has a better answer.

'Weapon length' and 'space needed' were fields on the weapons charts in the PHB, but I don't recall a rule enforcing them in any way.

Quote from: jrients'Weapon length' and 'space needed' were fields on the weapons charts in the PHB, but I don't recall a rule enforcing them in any way.

Cool, that jibes with my memory, too.  There were many levels of useless information on those weapon charts.  Other things I'm glad are gone: (1) Weapon vs. AC; (2) Special damage vs. Large creatures.

-O

Quote from: jrients'Weapon length' and 'space needed' were fields on the weapons charts in the PHB, but I don't recall a rule enforcing them in any way.

There was a method of using them that restricted how and when you could attack in the 1e DMG, but I've NEVER, not once, seen them used in play.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadThere was a method of using them that restricted how and when you could attack in the 1e DMG, but I've NEVER, not once, seen them used in play.

Wow, that's more than I remember

Say what you will about the sometimes-elegance of 1e D&D, but the rules were a fucking mess if you tried to use all of them.  Honestly, (knowing that I may be asking this rhetorical question in the wrong crowd,) who the hell kept track of their game time in segments?

-O

Over two decades since I used AD&D in any way, but I vaguely remember that the segments helped answer questions about how long it took to cast a spell vs. when you hit the wizard. Not that I used segments, but I could see doing so in a group where everybody could handle that level of detail.

The portion of the rules that was an absolute mess, zero chance I'd ever use them, was the grappling rules.

Sett, your ideas about a wargaming paradigm in campaign management are very interesting to me, because that's pretty much how I want to run a game sometime. Set up the map and then overlay it with dynamic relationships, such that doing something to X over here will have a measurable effect on Y over there, etc.

Quote from: obrynI don't remember there being any weapon length rules, to be honest.

I'm 90% sure they weren't around in 2nd Edition, which kept the speed factors, however.

-O

Weapon lengths were a factor in charges.  The figure with the longer weapon struck first.

Weapon speeds in 1e were only used to resolve ties; in 2e they were not used as originally intended, and made that stat even more problematic.

I never could figure out if the "Space Required" stat on the weapons tables meant total space required or space required on either side of the figure to use.  Then again, those were wrong in a lot of cases, too...

QuoteSet up the map and then overlay it with dynamic relationships, such that doing something to X over here will have a measurable effect on Y over there, etc.

This is what I game for. Look out for my upcoming "Story Engine" thread...

I've never played 1st edition AD&D as written.  My group and everyone that I've ever encountered had all started with either BD&D or OD&D.  When someone introduced the AD&D books people cherry picked the rules they liked and fell back to the earlier version wherever AD&D seemed more cumbersome.  It wasn't until 2nd edition that my group attempted to play by the rules exactly as written.  Even then we skimped on a few things, like material components.

Quote from: jrientsI've never played 1st edition AD&D as written...

That was the reasonable approach.  The crazy thing is that it meant that no one was playing quite the same game.  Every DM had their house rules varying betwen 5 pages and a complete rewrite of the rules, plus other things they forgot to write down.   When you switched DMs or groups, you'd often get blindsided by things suddenly working differently.