Design in Progress [D.I.P]

I began working on a card driven (instead of dice) based game centered around mecha. As I began working on it I had a few ideas of WHY I wanted cards, and what they should do.

The first aspect was I wanted players to have control of "when" they succeeded  --not absolute control, but they could choose when their best results were more likely to be to allow them to simulate the effect of 'I really want to do this' style effort. As well as encouraging a bit of choice that dice based mechanisms don't. I've seen people make "stealth" rolls and succeed, who didn't really care in character about being sneaky but just did it because they were asked to.

Now I've experience with several card based systems--the first was back in the 90's and didn't really do anything dice couldn't do as well.  

Later on Dragonlance Saga and then Marvel Saga came along and showed that cards could be used in ways dice couldn't--at least not without a lot of silly dice tricks.

I began working on the engine for another reason as well. I wanted a game where there was an ease of use for mecha that worked as well, easy, and fast as for people. Thus the idea came to me to use the same stats profiles for both humans and mecha (including vehicles such as straight cars.)  

Now the system is going to be a bit seperate from the setting--my aim is to create an engine for vehicle heavy (slight emphasis humanoid giant robots that are piloted) games. I came up with this in system I called "ACE" or Action Card Engine (I named it--not something I normally do, but I needed something to call it while I searched for the "killer app" to support it..)

ACE will power the setting of Vast Frontiers.


Vast Frontiers is SFish setting with western motif--that in spite of having space travel, high tech weapons, its fundamentally a western setting. (Much like Firefly) however--more importantly is that it possesses some extreme advances of technology beyond that--in the form of mecha (slingers).


The Frontier is a wide fast reach of the galactic rim where stars are farther apart, and civilization is distant, where rough and tumble miners tangle with colonists trying to scratch a living from the dirt of some distant world under stars that are unfamiliar to their ancestors. Slingers are one aspect of life that is not quite ubiquitious--originally these massive devices were meant for building and maintaining the Line. But as newer models replaced the old the older mechanized suits got adapted for a variety of functions--mining, farming, they became the work-horse of humanity. Powered suits 3-4 meters tall, weighting over 2 tons--and like all equipment even refurbished off the Line, they grew worn, old, patched.

Slingers fill the role of horse in some ways in Vast Frontiers, as well as the role of weapon. As defense increased so too offense to help even the odds. Mecha sized weapons were fashioned first from tools, then companies picked up the need and began making weapons to sell. Many people even hand fashion them with the tech on backwoods colony worlds. They aren't the latest, slickest weapon, but they do what they do well enough.


GunSlingers are the new myth, men skilled at combat, at battling one-on-one in a slinger suit. They have a certian mystique--whether criminal, mercenary, or even law abiding man just a bit too skilled for his own health.


That's the general idea of Vast Frontiers. The Line consists of a Line-Engine (a tug like hyperspace capable ship) which drags cargo and passenger pods (often converted from cargo pods) across the vast distances. Ships are expensive--too expensive for most, so the Line is how most people transit across the stars. Cramped into tiny state rooms or bunked out on a cargo pod floor.  

Beyond that weathy men fly ships, or a few poorer men make do with refitted hulls and cheap, dangerous hyperspace engines. But only the Line is "safe" except for outlaws who drop in as the Line exits into normal space who try and hijack the pods, selling men into slavery, and stealing the goods.

Now I've been working on the system, the first playtest went well with a single player.

The second one with two players was a bit too number/addition heavy and a bit too unclear so I've been working on the improved draft.

The current basic rules are that there are 4 action scores (Strike, Maneuver, Perception, Style) the cover the bulk of "doing things" they represent
both raw talent, skill, and general capability for performing tasks in that "flavor". The reasoning is that the effect is what matters, not the method. One could bust down a door using Strike by being strong, or being skilled at martial arts, or simply being big enough to throw your body through it. The "why" is less important than the how.

In addition to those action scores every person has a handful of "tags" these are slight occasionally beneficial areas of specialization--someone could have a "Strong" tag--and when doing an action that such a tag would be beneficial they get a slight bonus.


The basic mechanics are: Play a card who has a value printed on it--add that value to the action score, and if any add the slight bonus from a tag. This total must beat the difficulty to suceed. That's not ALL there is to the mechanics but it is the basic core.

Now each card has one of five suits printed on it--4 of these suits match a action score. If a card that matches the action score is played a player has a chance of getting a straight. How straights are handled is in the air at this point. I'm wanting it to be simple but a bit more controlled than Saga's trumps.

Method 1: You flip a number of cards equal to the value of the card played (So play a 4 Style on a style action and flip the next four cards on the draw deck.) if any of those match the action you add +1 to the played cards value. This makes "straights" a bit more likely than Saga's trumps, but also limited to more saner and tighter spreads.

Method 2: Pretty much flip the next card if it matches, flip the next and so on-adding up all cards for total value EXCEPT the one which doesn't match and ends the "straight" sweep. This is mostly identical to Trumps in saga except the last card is treated differently.


Now the 5 suite doesn't match any trait--its the "Glitch" suite, when played the card cannot in any way form a straight. It is beneficial played from a players hand they can succeed at a task, or use it to trigger a negative setback on a foe--if they play a Glitch card it goes into the GM's hands for play back against them at any time to trigger a setback of their own. (They can succeed at a task and still get a glitch--a minor setback that doens't impair their success but does limit them for a bit.) a glitch card played for setback on a failure can be a critical failure. All of this works only IF a player accepts the glitch played against them--they have the choice. If they refuse it stays in the GM's hands, if they accept it--they suffer a setback as noted. But they get the Glitch card to use themseves later in the game--thus expanding their ability to impair and harass their enemies in play.




Now this is where I'm at. I've got PC creation, and mecha creation which mirrors mostly PC creation.

Hmmm... I don't fully understand alot of what you're saying...

But what I get thus far I like.

Well you are welcome to ask questions, about anything at all. I'm sharing this Design in progress for a reason.

A second reading and I'm understanding it better, but... glitches?

Yeah glitches are a fifth suit--the idea of setbacks that can occur in play to both heroes and their foes, but are not necessarily failure on their own--things which can create pyrrhic victories, minor momentary setbacks or possibly even critical failures.

Imagine the classic movie motif of two people struggling over a gun. The two are struggling for it and one fails--usually the villain, but instead of pulling the gun away--it goes off--and for a moment we don't know who was shot until the villain falls. This is a glitch tied to a failure--something more than just losing control of the gun--but losing control /and/ it going off to kill someone.


A non-lethal glitch might be: a rapid exchange of gunfire between the villain and hero. Suddenly the hero's gun goes empty. The villain rises safe and assured that his foe is "unarmed" due to ammo depletion and aims carefully pulling the trigger--to ALSO have his gun hammer fall on an empty chamber.

This is a glitch--not necessarily a failed "skill" roll--after all if there HAD been a bullet he could have shot, but a setback that changes the scope of play.

One idea for a card driven engine is suit based.

so lets say you have attributes 1-5 steps then when you test against an attribute you draw a card and you a then you count up the suit of the drawn card.

example, you have trageting rated @ 3 you draw a 3 of hearts you cound the steps 4 of hearts, 5 of hearts, 6 hearts. So your final result is 6 of hearts. Now you compare that to the difficulty of say 6 of spades. You would fail because (in my rankings) spades are hight than hearts.  Now of you had draw a 7 of hearts you would pass , suit is only used as a tie breaker.

attributes are also rated in suit. so you could have a tageting of 3 of hearts. That means your suit is always going to be hearts or higher. If you draw a suit lower that the suit of the stat it is condidered to be the suit of your stat.

I would also use jokers as fumbles or something like that.

During play all cards play during that session are kept in front of the players (multiple decks of cards may be needed). When a player draws a card they lay in front of them, the next time the draw the lay the new card over the previous card played leaving only the left edge showing. When they make poker hands using any 5 consecutive cards in front of them they get special effects.

That is the basics of my card driven system.

Quote from: McrowThat is the basics of my card driven system.

Please start your own thread to discuss what your doing. I'll come read it.
Its not exactly useful in this one (which is talking about how Vast Frontiers is being designed.)

 
I've already discarded utilizing normal card decks for a reason. (Too few cards, and they have an even distribution of card values--where Marvel Saga, and my own ACE system do not.)

Quote from: SilverlionPlease start your own thread to discuss what your doing. I'll come read it.
Its not exactly useful in this one (which is talking about how Vast Frontiers is being designed.)

Sorry, it was hard to tell from your post exactly what you want people to post here. I thought you were looking for suggeestions.

QuoteI've already discarded utilizing normal card decks for a reason. (Too few cards, and they have an even distribution of card values--where Marvel Saga, and my own ACE system do not.)

so you are goin to use custom cards?

So, aside from suit and numerical value, what other information will be on the card? Will cards represent the action in and of themselves? Or will each card have some permanent thing, like a gun, a mech, a program, etc. tied to it?

Is this just a resolution mechanic, or do the cards also dictate action?

Cards dictate what actions they are most suited to help with--they don't force one to play them for that.

At the moment I'm trying to see if I can work either "hit location" or general parts failure aspects onto the cards. (So if an enemy is damaged you draw two cards and combine words like 'arm' and 'actuator' or 'torso hydraulics'

At the moment they just have value and suite (tied to the "what they assist" aspect)

I read SF (some) but have never really played in a SFRPG.  I loved Firefly. I give this just as background so you can weight my opinion as you see fit.

I like the setting (seeing as how I liked Firefly, that fits).  The mechanics are interesting. I get the basic idea (i think) of avoiding dice to give players a chance to decide the importance of success. Means a alot? Throw that 4 down. Not so important? Toss out a 2.

How am I doing so far?

Then, you go into straights, literally and figuratively.  I get the bonus for playing a card of the "action suit," as it were, but why go beyond that? That's where it starts to get complicated and I could see it bogging down.  At that point, I wonder if you lose the advantage over dice; that is, are you getting into the "silly dice tricks" arena?

Like I said, my experience is limited - FWIW.

Quote from: James J SkachThen, you go into straights, literally and figuratively.  I get the bonus for playing a card of the "action suit," as it were, but why go beyond that? That's where it starts to get complicated and I could see it bogging down.  At that point, I wonder if you lose the advantage over dice; that is, are you getting into the "silly dice tricks" arena?

Like I said, my experience is limited - FWIW.

In Saga which is a clear inspiration it had trumps--when card matched the attribute/action suite you flipped the next card. If it matched you flipped again and so on. Much the same as exploding dice.

This worked well in superhero game, but not well for a mecha setting where big triumphs may exist but should be a little more contrained (since we aren't doing "super" mecha in this game)--hence straights.

 It may be too complex.

 I'm still testing it out. So far when I handle all the card work for an online game its bothersome and slow--BUT the same would be true of me handling all the mechanics work for any game.

Preliminaries: This is a rough draft, it includes both ACE aspects and some of the genre decisions/aspects of Vast Frontiers.

If you take the time to read this consider these issues.

Weapons. Currently I'm aiming on offering three options (depending on genre decisions a GM makes). The first choice will be to toll weapons wholly into the "Strike" attribute with tags for specific "better or worse" variations.
The second genre option will be a list of customizable weapons. Primarily 'pick and use' for speed of play and genres where weapon choice is consistent among a small selection. (Say "Robotech"). The final option will be a system to allow complete weapon customization.

SHOULD I goto that much effort, or go with the simpler first option? I know mecha weapons vary a lot but often they're either "ping" or "obliterate in explosion" many video games take a different tack (and hero mechas tend to take damage better..)


Second examine the straights--should I use the option presented or change it to straight trump like straights (play the right card, and flip the next and add, if it matches the task by suite, flip again and so on--adding TOTAL value to the result.





ACE ENGINE/Vast Frontiers Playtest Draft Rules Version 2

Definitions

Ability Trait

4 Ability traits exist (Strike, Maneuver, Perception, and Style) and they represent the ability "to do stuff". These ability traits
cover raw talent as well as basic skills.

Players recieve a pool of points to purchase these traits based on the style and sub-genre of the mecha game


Gritty        30
High Action   40
Superheroic   60


Tags
Tags are specific focused or honed capabilities that surpass ability traits but come up less commonly than the core ability. They represent
exceptional aspects of the person: Skill, talent, trait, relatinships, or other narrowly useful bonus. They provide +2
circumstance bonus when the tag comes into play.

PC Generation
Vast Frontiers PC's are classified as gritty and have 30 points on ability traits, experience level, and tags.


Ability traits must be at least 1, and can be purchased to a maximum of 10 on a point for point basis.
5 is average.

Experience Level (Vast Frontiers Specific)

Cost                     Title         Hand Size
0               Tenderfoot                  3
5                    Rough Rider          5
10               Old Hand          7

Tags cost 1 point each but starting characters may only have a maximum of three tags per ability trait.
Negative Tags can be taken, they ALSO cost 1 point--when someone is forced to use a negative tag however
they may increase their Fury rating by one.


Card play: Cards are played from a players hand. The card value+trait+tags must be higher than the target difficulty
assigned most often by the GM
   
Straight:
Straights form when one plays a card that matches the suit of the ability trait one is using. When it matches.
You flip the next number of cards equal to the value of the match card--every card in those flipped
cards that matches the suit adds +1 to total value for success purpose. All cards from the straight
are then placed in the discard pile

Fury
All players should choose a Fury Trigger for their character--this is an event or situation that makes them forceful
angry, pushes their characters buttons. Whenever a Fury Trigger is present, the character gains
a point of fury--fury may be triggered at any time and spent to increase the value of actions or to link two cards together
as a "set" in play.

Glitch Cards.

Glitch cards are a fifth suit that ties to no attribute. Instead a Glitch card like a joker in some
card games are "Wild" Glitch cards may be used to trigger a setback on a foe when played against them rather than played
for solely for their numeric value. When a player does this, they must describe the trigger event (Shooting a gun from hand) and play
the Glich card. The glitch card cannot form a straight. It is added to the action score, and if that beats the resistance of the target
then the setback occurs. A GM cannot refuse a Glitch card but CAN tailor how severe the setback is if it seems too powerful--no instant deaths
or anything of the sort. The GM however KEEPS the Glitch card rather than it being discarded
and may play it back against the Player at any time. When a Glitch is played against a player
they may accept the setback, and take the card for their own use. If they refuse the setback. The trigger event still occurs but cannot trigger
a penalty beyond typical actions. (Wrestling for a Pistol in their slingers, a PC is told  that the weapon goes off and will hit someone on their side if they accept the glitch. If they refuse
the Gm's Glitch play may still allow the villain to wrestle the gun free from the hero. Just without the added glitch)



Mecha Construction

Mecha work just like people only one spends points (based on subgenre) on Mecha ability traits and mecha tags, mecha may also have systems--things related
to the mecha that do not tie to any particular trait (much like a human beings equipment things like Armor, Movement speed/method) and so on.
Maximun attribute for Mecha varies with Campaign. its 12 for Vast Frontiers, 15 for Gundragon Eidolon, and 10 for Xenophobia Parasite Exodus

Systems
Light Armor  (0)
Medium Armor (1)
Heavy Armor  (3)
Slow Movement (0)
Average Movement (1)
Fast Movement (3)
Jury Rigged Weapon (0)
Stock Weapon (1)
Custom Weapon (3)*
Garage Repair (0)
Field Repair (1)
Self-Repair (3) Not available in Vast Frontiers
Hover(1) Not available in Vast Frontiers
Flight (3) Not Available in Vast Frontiers (except for Spacecraft)
Teleportation (3) Not available in Vast Frontiers
Transformation (3)

 
Custom Weapons base price represents taking an off the rack weapon and modifying it.
The cost of from the ground up weapons cost 3 plus +1 for every 5 points of
effect (accuracy, draw, shots, damage over 0.) Weapons range is not important except if
limited to Melee only (-1 point) or Extreme (Horizon, Orbital ranged weapons +3)

Other modifiers can be purchased based on the basic grading of 0 (standard for the campaign, not
exceptional or considered seriously game effecting.), 1 point--some game effect or only mildly unusual
for the campaign. 2 Significant game effect or very unusual/limited  3 Extreme game effect, or unique
to that mecha only. Note: Some things regardless of the suggested cost simply do not fit the technological
capacity or setting--teleportation or self-repair mecha in Vast Frontiers, Horizon ranged weapons
in Xenophobe Parasite Exodus or Vast Frontiers, Transforming Mecha in Vast Frontiers oR XPE
and etc.





Stock Weapons                  Accuracy   Draw  Shots    Damage
Rifle                            +2         -2       6           5
Pistol                            0         +1       6           3
Shotgun                             -2/+2*     -2      2          6/3  
Sledgehammer                        0         -2      --          5     Melee
Cutter                        -2         -2      --           6     Melee
Mecha (Fist)                          0         NR      --          2     Melee


Customizing Weapons: A Gunsmith can modify weapons adding a +1 to any single
score above with a weeks worth of work and proper tools. A Custom weapon
taken as a trait recieves a +1 to two categories. (Accuracy, Draw, Shots, Damage)
Yes even Mecha fists can be modified. (Added spiked knuckles, increase precision actuators)

Shotguns: Shotguns are a special case there accuracy and damage are listed for using pellet ammunition. If utilizing a slug
they do damage and have accuracy as a Rifle. At very close ranges (5m or less)
the shot gun gets the -2 accuracy and does 6 damage because the shot strikes a single part of the mecha with all the pellets.
If any farther away (6m+) the shot spreads out making it more likely to strike the mecha in part, but fewer pellets will hit with
force and precision thus the lesser damage.

The Cutter is a mining tool modified into a large plasma cutting tool. Much like a pneumatic drill, or jackhammer it is highly
unwieldy.

Mecha Ram: A humanoid or animal shaped mecha can should ram or tackle another mecha for damage the damage is the same as the mecha (fist) PLUS their speed rank (the cost for there speed)

Built in Weapons: Some mecha have weapons integral to their chassis/frame, these built in weapons are purchased as any other weapon but cannot be targeted separately (shooting a weapon out of an opponents hand) nor can they be modified by a gunsmith without removing the whole assembly--which doubles the time needed to modify the weapon.






Jury Rigged weapons suffer a -1 to all the above stats listed for the weapon because they are tools modified into weapons (Riveters turned into pistols, Spike Drivers turned into rifles,and so on) Jury rigged weapons cannot be improved beyond their base stats.


Vast Frontier Armor Scale

Light Armor: reduces damage 1 point
Medium Armor reduces Damage 2 points
Heavy Armor reduces damage 4 points.

For enemies without card hands  when they oppose heroes you add their trait rank to chosen difficulty plus the accuracy of the weapon and that's the basic number needed to avoid getting damaged by their weapons.
Damage Threshold for enemy mechs is the total card play+damage. Each point after armor is applied is the number of boxes you count off the damage track.  When you reach the end of the damage Track you drop down and count along the Destroyed track. IF you do not get to the "Destroyed" box you merely mark off one of the boxes in the Destroyed track and start again at 0 on the Damaged Track next attack.

The first row of boxes are "Hits" representing light blows that ping mostly of the mecha leaving at best scorch marks, pitted holes in the armor, or cracks in the veneer. The second row of boxes are "Damage" representing potential impairment to the unit (each box counts as -1 to the mecha's action score).


Test PC Sheet is here: http://www.freewebs.com/tome/Vastfrontpc.pdf

Prototype Cards (sans numbers) are here:

http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=acecards5hy.jpg

I'm considering Fury increasing whenever a glitch card is played against a PC and they accept it, but making it ALWAYS negative/potentially serious setbacks.