Theory is all well and good (in theory), but only if it is supported by sound research. This will not be very sound, but it's a start. I'm looking at RPGs not from the direction of how, but of why? To that end, I'm asking you guys to help me come up with as concise, yet encompassing list of goals people have in mind when they play these games.
1: To have fun (Pundit):pundit:
2: Escapism (my stressed college buddies):melodramatic:
3: Educational (Tracy Hickman et al):teacher:
4: A social experiment (some at The Forge):forge:
Mine is "to do what I can't do in real life," but I'd say that is taken care of the first two...
Examining those kinds of goals and priorities is important.
But the next step after that would be to look at whether the structure of RPGs (the how) is capable of or well-suited for actually fulfilling the stated goals.
This is where some goals like "to create stories (literature)" fall apart.
RPGPundit
A lot of my gaming is to go places I never can go. For example, I run a lot of SF because I would give my right arm to go into space, and I never will. This way my mind can. It's not escapism, because there's nothing I'm escaping - I have a great life. It's vicarious space-and-Time Travel. I can look beyond the blue event horizon.
-clash
I have to say I game for reasons one and two. Fun and escapism. Although it has to be more fun than anything else. If it's not fun, I don't play. The escapism part is more of stress relief than anything else. A break from my job, my family routine, etc. Gives me something else to think about that's different.
Put me down for 'fun'. I just like hanging out with my friends, eating pizza and telling stories. I'm not really interested in 'optimizing my character' or 'immersive roleplay'. Just want a fun game.
Without adequately defining what you mean by 'fun', it's a bit meaningless. Everybody's going to say they're in it for 'fun'. Everybody means something a bit different.
I'm in it for fun!
I like a bunch of stuff. I like playing somebody that's not me and do things I'd never really do in places I'll never go.
Yes.
I like aspects of all three first but not so much the forth. I game with friends and am not a professional counselor/psychoanalyst. Hence I don't need to delve into their heads to play a game.
Am I missing any?
Vicarious experience...maybe I'll replace escapism with that, as it's a broader heading.
Quote from: droogWithout adequately defining what you mean by 'fun', it's a bit meaningless. Everybody's going to say they're in it for 'fun'. Everybody means something a bit different.
I'm in it for fun!
Another vote for fun! We're winning!
And winning is always fun!
Quote from: droogAnd winning is always fun!
Perhaps the
real reason we all play these games... :hmm:
A lot of my gaming is about stuff - themes, situations, characters etc - I've seen in films or read in books. Injecting them into rpgs is fun, challenging and rewarding for me. (My players just like doing cool stuff and think of the whole endevour as escapist in nature :D )
Regards,
David R
Quote from: laffingboyPut me down for 'fun'. I just like hanging out with my friends, eating pizza and telling stories. I'm not really interested in 'optimizing my character' or 'immersive roleplay'. Just want a fun game.
Herein lies the problem with this broad category list. The goal of "telling stories" is not something I would think of as fun (no offense to those that do!), so many people might say "for fun" and mean completely different things.
So later things on the list might actually be considered to be part of the "fun" definition.
Perhaps the survey should assume fun, and then let people choose what that means, be it optimizing character, immersion, escapism, building story, etc.
Quote from: RPGPunditThis is where some goals like "to create stories (literature)" fall apart.
Only for certain games. . . but I digress. . .
I think most people play RPGs for two reasons. . .
1. Escapism (this includes being something that you're not in real life, doing things you can't in real life, and so on).
2. Empowerment (this consists of specifically wielding influence or powers that you don't possess in real life and, thus, is technically a
type of escapism).
Fun, of course, is the obvious answer -- it's also worthless. The term "fun" is
entirely subjective and very vague, therefore, useless for the purposes of forming an objective theory. I think it would be better to focus on things that can be defined objectively (like escapsim).
Indeed, assuming that escapism is the priamry goal (which I think it is safe to assume it is, per the dictionary definition of the word), you can create an entire heirarchy of fulfillment beneath this broad category.
For example, if escapism represents the apex of the pyramid, you may have
types of escapism such as empowerment (mentioned above), character immersion (frequently mentioned as a goal of gamers), premise exploration (a goal of story-oriented RPGs), and so on.
I see very workable model in there.
"Fun" I guess means it generates pleasurable mental sensations regardless of the activity's practicality.
Educational /= Fun
Experimentation /= Fun
Escapism CAN be fun, but I've also seen it as a psychological defense mechanism. Then it was necessary, albeit not a good long-term solution. But that is another story...
"Storytelling" is fun for some. I'll leave the debate of whether "collective storytelling" and whatnot is roleplaying or not for others, because I don't play those games and thus don't care.
Quote from: dsivisExperimentation /= Fun
See, for me, experimentation (of a certain type)
is fun. Hence the problem with the totally vague and subjective nature of the word. Anything
can be fun ;)
Point taken, I guess. Perhaps re-working my list to avoid "fun" and just leaving it as a foregone conclusion: ie, if you're not having fun with RPGs, what the fuck are you doing playing/running them, eh?
OK, I know. Social pressure to set someone up as GM who doesn't want to GM anymore. I know the feeling and so do some of my players.
Quote from: dsivisPerhaps re-working my list to avoid "fun" and just leaving it as a foregone conclusion
Actually, I'd focus on specific
types of fun. Get rid of the vague and provide a definition, don't ditch the aspect. Fun is likely the #1 reason people play non-competetive games that don't carry an implicit cash reward for winning (people arguably play blackjack for the money). The thing you need to focus on is what these people consider fun to be.
For some people, escapism is the primary source of fun, for others it's empowerment (i.e., wish-fulfillment), for still others it's tactical combat simulation or problem-solving (i.e., riddles). There are hundreds of different things in RPGs that may qualify as "fun" given the individual. Focus on those specific things, not the all-encompassing and very subjective, "fun".
It's also going to be very important not tocompile such a list based solely on your personal tastes, which is what you were doing a couple of posts up the thread. Remember, just because you don't find something fun doesn't mean that everybody else feels the same way and vice-versa.
I'd conduct a few "What do you find fun about RPGs?" polls here, at ENWorld, on mailing lists, and possibly at the Big Purple site, as well. Use that data to compile a list and then run a few more polls to pare it down a bit.
[Note: As for players forced to play a game or participating in a game because they can't stand up and let their true feelings be known, I think it's best to discount such people when considering game theory.]
Quote from: dsivis"Fun" I guess means it generates pleasurable mental sensations regardless of the activity's practicality.
Educational /= Fun
Experimentation /= Fun
Escapism CAN be fun, but I've also seen it as a psychological defense mechanism.
Just to emphasize the point, I think educational stuff can be fun as well. Heck, I'd say that
all the best educational material is fun.
I like learning stuff... That's why I will read non-fiction books as a pastime, say. Apropos RPGs, I like reading non-fiction and putting it into my RPGs. I think anyone who has played in a historical RPG and gotten into looking stuff up about the period can attest to the fun of it.
Quote from: jhkimI think anyone who has played in a historical RPG and gotten into looking stuff up about the period can attest to the fun of it.
That'd be me.
I'll reorganize my list sometime in the near future, as right now I should be spending time with my family or writing. Happy New Years!