"Fun" I guess means it generates pleasurable mental sensations regardless of the activity's practicality.

Educational /= Fun
Experimentation /= Fun

Escapism CAN be fun, but I've also seen it as a psychological defense mechanism. Then it was necessary, albeit not a good long-term solution. But that is another story...

"Storytelling" is fun for some. I'll leave the debate of whether "collective storytelling" and whatnot is roleplaying or not for others, because I don't play those games and thus don't care.

Quote from: dsivisExperimentation /= Fun

See, for me, experimentation (of a certain type) is fun. Hence the problem with the totally vague and subjective nature of the word. Anything can be fun

Point taken, I guess. Perhaps re-working my list to avoid "fun" and just leaving it as a foregone conclusion: ie, if you're not having fun with RPGs, what the fuck are you doing playing/running them, eh?

OK, I know. Social pressure to set someone up as GM who doesn't want to GM anymore. I know the feeling and so do some of my players.

Quote from: dsivisPerhaps re-working my list to avoid "fun" and just leaving it as a foregone conclusion

Actually, I'd focus on specific types of fun. Get rid of the vague and provide a definition, don't ditch the aspect. Fun is likely the #1 reason people play non-competetive games that don't carry an implicit cash reward for winning (people arguably play blackjack for the money). The thing you need to focus on is what these people consider fun to be.

For some people, escapism is the primary source of fun, for others it's empowerment (i.e., wish-fulfillment), for still others it's tactical combat simulation or problem-solving (i.e., riddles). There are hundreds of different things in RPGs that may qualify as "fun" given the individual. Focus on those specific things, not the all-encompassing and very subjective, "fun".

It's also going to be very important not tocompile such a list based solely on your personal tastes, which is what you were doing a couple of posts up the thread. Remember, just because you don't find something fun doesn't mean that everybody else feels the same way and vice-versa.

I'd conduct a few "What do you find fun about RPGs?" polls here, at ENWorld, on mailing lists, and possibly at the Big Purple site, as well. Use that data to compile a list and then run a few more polls to pare it down a bit.

[Note: As for players forced to play a game or participating in a game because they can't stand up and let their true feelings be known, I think it's best to discount such people when considering game theory.]

Quote from: dsivis"Fun" I guess means it generates pleasurable mental sensations regardless of the activity's practicality.

Educational /= Fun
Experimentation /= Fun

Escapism CAN be fun, but I've also seen it as a psychological defense mechanism.

Just to emphasize the point, I think educational stuff can be fun as well.  Heck, I'd say that all the best educational material is fun.  

I like learning stuff... That's why I will read non-fiction books as a pastime, say.  Apropos RPGs, I like reading non-fiction and putting it into my RPGs.  I think anyone who has played in a historical RPG and gotten into looking stuff up about the period can attest to the fun of it.

Quote from: jhkimI think anyone who has played in a historical RPG and gotten into looking stuff up about the period can attest to the fun of it.

That'd be me.

I'll reorganize my list sometime in the near future, as right now I should be spending time with my family or writing. Happy New Years!